2010-03-15: What's the Verdict?

[Tiamat]

Why does he seem so earnest about seeing her awake?

Possibly because being in stasis is like being dead, and seeing the 'corpse' of your granddaughter is a pretty discomforting sight.

[DatDude]

That or the only thing left to do ask her " WTF Meji?"

[davester65]

It's almost like he actually cares!

He has always cared; why do you think he went to such lengths to make sure Meji didn't turn our as her mom?

Exactly. He's a crummy grandfather, but not because he didn't care what happened to her.

I don't know what it is with some of you guys. Haven't you ever heard of tough love? Given that Meji's Mom is basically the Tsuiraiku town couch, there's nothing wrong with Gramps pushing Meji a bit with threats (probably hollow ones) of disinheritance to make her study occasionally so she makes something of herself hardly makes him a monster.

[Tiamat]

Exactly. He's a crummy grandfather, but not because he didn't care what happened to her.

I don't know what it is with some of you guys. Haven't you ever heard of tough love? Given that Meji's Mom is basically the Tsuiraiku town couch, there's nothing wrong with Gramps pushing Meji a bit with threats (probably hollow ones) of disinheritance to make her study occasionally so she makes something of herself hardly makes him a monster.

Being totally indifferent to the needs of kid!Meji and pushing her through school despite her being biologically younger than all of her peers and probably not mentally or physically ready for the schooling makes him a crummy grandfather. It doesn't mean he doesn't care or love her, but it was still a bad thing to do. "Tough love" and "stubborn persistence in spite of facts" are not the same thing.

[Graybeard]

Exactly. He's a crummy grandfather, but not because he didn't care what happened to her.

I don't know what it is with some of you guys. Haven't you ever heard of tough love? Given that Meji's Mom is basically the Tsuiraiku town couch, there's nothing wrong with Gramps pushing Meji a bit with threats (probably hollow ones) of disinheritance to make her study occasionally so she makes something of herself hardly makes him a monster.

Being totally indifferent to the needs of kid!Meji and pushing her through school despite her being biologically younger than all of her peers and probably not mentally or physically ready for the schooling makes him a crummy grandfather. It doesn't mean he doesn't care or love her, but it was still a bad thing to do. "Tough love" and "stubborn persistence in spite of facts" are not the same thing.

WHAT facts? We know that half elves are all but unknown in Tsuirakushiti, and they don't have the experience of them that people in the Northern Confederacy (or, for that matter, Farrel or Veracia) do. That means that when the big decisions were being made, Gramps had very limited data to go on regarding how the child Meji would develop physically, much less about mental and emotional development. Would you, as a parent, know what was "right" for a child who was half Neanderthal? I sure wouldn't -- and Gramps has had to shoulder the burden of being not merely crotchety old grandfather but also surrogate parent. I don't envy him the job.

There is also the point that the social norm for parenting in Tsuirakushiti isn't necessarily what you and I are used to. We know the place is class conscious, and being extreme upper class, as Gramps clearly is, places its constraints (as well as conferring its advantages) on the way he sees and does things -- and we don't know what they are. It's hard being an extreme-upper-crust parent, which is one reason why so many progeny of English nobility over the past few hundred years were/are so screwed up.

This is not to say that he doesn't see, and live, his role in life as that of resident a-hole. He could, but not necessarily; we'll know more about that shortly. But I'm not ready to throw stones on the basis of what we've seen so far.

[DatDude]

So much debate over someone we know so little about.

[Lurker 314]

It's worth noting that Meji took his threat of disinheritance seriously and with a minimum of lip. Somehow I doubt she'd be that bothered if Mom tried the same trick. It seems more likely that he's a distant figure that she respects rather than despises or loathes.

Also, I'm starting to wonder if the god hunt will continue and Exitialis will be next to be dug up. Only problem is for the elves to come up with a half elf subject. Related spoiler follows:

Spoiler: show

Exitialis might already have been dug up by Kiyan Nizami, the half elf mage who flipped out suddenly and broke Malacia, sparking the Errant war. I'm sure that's already been discussed here. He certain exhibited a lot of juice at the time of his freakout, but he was already known as the most powerful of the half-elf mages.

The elves may also have some half elves hidden in their society. For example, I'd be suspicious of any of the youngest elves merely on the grounds that at that time, a half elf, who can actually be mostly elvish and hard to distinguish from pure elves, would be far more fertile than a full blood elf. Misa, for example, might have some human in her lineage due to an indiscretion of her mother or earlier ancestors. It's hard to imagine her staying young for 1500 years though unless a small amount of human (well it's got to be smaller than the elves have knowledge of, I suppose) doesn't hurt much in the aging department.

[Graybeard]

It's worth noting that Meji took his threat of disinheritance seriously and with a minimum of lip. Somehow I doubt she'd be that bothered if Mom tried the same trick. It seems more likely that he's a distant figure that she respects rather than despises or loathes.

I'd say more "fears" than "despises," but of course she has negative emotions about him, and "despises" probably applies on some level; after all, she's a spoiled, self-centered teenager and he's an old man, never mind that they are kin. Some things just go with the territory. Besides, Meji basically "despises" everything about Tsuiraku except her close friends and their own families. That's just part of the shtick.

Show of hands here: how many post-teenage readers of this would look back at their own teenage years and confess that, at the time, they thought at least some of their own friends' families were significantly less screwed up than their own? Whether or not that was actually true? Don't know about any of you individually, but my hand is up.

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Where have we ever seen Meji show any sign of despising her grandfather?

Even when Bani described him as an asshat for not letting Meji get a bit older before entering school, she agreed... To a certain degree. "Yes... a bit."

On another note, it does look like grandpa has kinda realized he pushed Meji into doing something reckless. Perhaps underestimating what she'd be willing to try, and how serious she'd be about going through with it. Might even say that the whole story is based around Meji's need to show grandpa that she's not useless like her mother.

[ChunLing]

I never got to experience life as a teen, as it would be understood in Western culture. There are various reasons for this, but suffice to say it is obvious that Meji is not the most reliable judge of moral issues generally.

Legal distinctions based on age in Tsuiraku may well not have any provisions for dealing with developmental disparity between the various races. It could well be that Meji will be legally accountable for her own behavior once she reaches a certain age, and that there is (deliberately) very little that even a senior member of the government can do about it at that point. In fact, I'd call that probable. Given that Grandpa is probably currently dealing with the consequences every time Meji injures someone or destroys their property (and was even when elves were not involved), he could be more than usually conscious of what a load of shit Meji will bring down on her head once she is legally considered an adult unless she changes her behavior.

Pushing her to grow up would not be merely his own hobby in that case. It would be the best course for her, short of exile to an uninhabited isle. Which I would have investigated, had it been me, but he doesn't even like to see her in stasis.

Still, regardless of whether it is correct for him to push her to become a responsible member of society because of some inflexible legal requirement, or just his own bias, the more important issue is why Meji's mother didn't have a proper role model during her own critical years. Perhaps that would have made no difference one way or the other, but if Gramps did away with Granma somehow, I'd say that qualifies as not being a good Grandfather.