2010-09-02: What the Hell Am I Even Saying?

[minigendo]

Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I find Meiji's comments more than a little ironic.

She's berating her professor for being wrong about things, for having a lack of understanding caused by something being handed to them rather than evolving it naturally, despite only knowing this because someone just handed her that knowledge. She is in essence making fun of someone trying to solve a puzzle by calling them stupid for not having the right answer, when she's flipped to the end of the book and read the solution.

It's troubling from a character development standpoint, because the events so far imply that Meiji is inherently a bully. Previously she tolerated other people (say her professor) because they had the ability to effect her, but now that she's got power she seems more than willing to push them around. We can no more forgive her this than we can any other bully. "Oh, he only lords over other people because genetics gave him a natural advantage in height and strength". Worse, her words imply that she no longer sees people as "people" anymore. If all individuals become to her little more than ongoing reaction processes, she sort of becomes a sociopath by default.

From a narrative standpoint, this state can't persist for long, the story wouldn't survive it. Meiji would have no reason to continue to associate with the other characters if she continues to behave as such, beyond exacting revenge on them for imagined slights. However, if as Samuel Johnson said "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.", sometimes paraphrased to the effect of "The true measure of a man is how he treats his lessers.", than Meiji has profoundly failed that test.

[jackfrost]

She is in essence making fun of someone trying to solve a puzzle by calling them stupid for not having the right answer, when she's flipped to the end of the book and read the solution.

No, shes integrating memories of a person (god, w/e) who was not handed everything, and did solve the puzzles originally. This is far different from just looking at the completed solution... if she does successfully integrate the memories, she will understand everything from the perspective of the original. Of course, I can't say how successful she will be.

because the events so far imply that Meiji is inherently a bully.

Not really sure where you are getting this from... it seems more like she has been put down a lot and her life has been harder than most kids in her age/generation, but I can't say I remember her being a bully. Of course, the comic has gone on for a long time... Given that our only example of her post godhood merge state so far is her teacher who we know she has issues with, and all shes done is stop him from manhandling her, I don't think its fair to relegate her to bully status.

than Meiji has profoundly failed that test.

She hasn't done anything yet, other than stop someone who she doesn't like from "bullying" her.

Have you read a future strip?

As for feelings for a petri dish... I think that analogy is taken too far. Yes, she sees the components that makes up a person, but unlike a petri dish, she understand that it is a sentient being, not an unthinking bacteria.
Of course, at some level of godhood, maybe sentience itself isn't enough, and there has to be a level of understanding to be worthy of more consideration than the typical petri dish gets.........

[Bucky]

Meji hasn't accidentally destroyed herself yet. The planet is still intact, as are all major cities on it. There are no major holes in the space-time continuum, and the local laws of physics are more or less intact. Finally, she hasn't taken over the area's political and/or religious structure for her own purposes.

So far, she's been remarkably well-behaved.

EDIT: or hasn't had time yet

As for feelings for a petri dish... I think that analogy is taken too far. Yes, she sees the components that makes up a person, but unlike a petri dish, she understand that it is a sentient being, not an unthinking bacteria.
Of course, at some level of godhood, maybe sentience itself isn't enough, and there has to be a level of understanding to be worthy of more consideration than the typical petri dish gets.........

The fact that she's still talking to the professor is a very good sign.

[minigendo]

I dislike response quotes, I'm afraid, so please forgive me for not using them.

@Jack Frost
No doubt I am jumping the gun with regards to labeling Meiji a bully. As I mentioned, I doubt her current attitude will persist for long. Still, and this is likely unique to me, I find it interesting that her first act of divine power is essentially to "pick on" (call it what you will) someone she didn't like who has no ability to affect her at all at this point.

I imagine we'll have to agree to disagree on whether being given the memory of a solution and it's derivation is different from being given the solution and it's derivation.

I'm not certain she's as blameless as you make out though. She's done a bit more than stop someone from bullying her. First she broke into his classroom, began torching his stuff, and then ignored his arguably reasonable requests for an explanation. Then she lifted him physically with magic. Mind you, previous events have shown that she is capable of psychic broadcasting, and could presumably have imparted the entire thing to him without affecting him materially in any way.

My comments are wholly my own opinion, and I am likely dead wrong. We have in a way been given a view of a future strip though, given Meiji's talk with future Meiji. If future Ian's foreshadowing is too be trusted, she'll do things far worse than he ever got up to, and he killed a lot of people. Narrative causality being what it is, these events don't have to happen, but it isn't promising.

Regardless, those are my two cents.

[Nell]

As for feelings for a petri dish... I think that analogy is taken too far. Yes, she sees the components that makes up a person, but unlike a petri dish, she understand that it is a sentient being, not an unthinking bacteria.
Of course, at some level of godhood, maybe sentience itself isn't enough, and there has to be a level of understanding to be worthy of more consideration than the typical petri dish gets.........

Then let me refine this analogy to make it more resistant to scrutiny.
Think of a robotics specialist, one that is capable of making robots so well-constructed that they can engage in conversations with you as active and understanding participants, and be basically indistinguishable from human beings.

To someone like Mejilis, these beings are essentially nuts and bolts and scrap metal, but she can respect the craftsmanship gone into creating them, and respect their sentience enough to actually bother speaking to them.

It's troubling from a character development standpoint, because the events so far imply that Meiji is inherently a bully. Previously she tolerated other people (say her professor) because they had the ability to effect her, but now that she's got power she seems more than willing to push them around. We can no more forgive her this than we can any other bully. "Oh, he only lords over other people because genetics gave him a natural advantage in height and strength". Worse, her words imply that she no longer sees people as "people" anymore. If all individuals become to her little more than ongoing reaction processes, she sort of becomes a sociopath by default.

From a narrative standpoint, this state can't persist for long, the story wouldn't survive it. Meiji would have no reason to continue to associate with the other characters if she continues to behave as such, beyond exacting revenge on them for imagined slights. However, if as Samuel Johnson said "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.", sometimes paraphrased to the effect of "The true measure of a man is how he treats his lessers.", than Meiji has profoundly failed that test.

It could be said that Meji's showed sociopathic/bully traits ("use them and toss them, evil wizard type person") all along and this experience only helps them surface entirely. She wasn't actively aggressive because she could get her ass handed to her by any of the other members of the cast at any minute, so she just let them deposit her in Senilis' chamber. She has no reason to give a shit about anyone other than herself now that she got what she wanted all along.

Hell I can just imagine her killing the other members of the cast, and I'm curious as to how Sara would survive the whole mess.

As for the story surviving it all? This is the END of Errant Story. The story is not supposed to survive with Mejilis active and about.

[Imp-Chan]

From a narrative standpoint, this state can't persist for long, the story wouldn't survive it. Meiji would have no reason to continue to associate with the other characters if she continues to behave as such, beyond exacting revenge on them for imagined slights. However, if as Samuel Johnson said "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good.", sometimes paraphrased to the effect of "The true measure of a man is how he treats his lessers.", than Meiji has profoundly failed that test.

She has no reason to give a shit about anyone other than herself now that she got what she wanted all along.

I'm not sure that would be a correct assumption. Sure, arguably the only reason anyone does anything is to get something they want... but even if we accept that as truth, there's no reason to expect that "godlike power" was the only thing she ever wanted, or even something she truly DID want (as opposed to actually wanting the results that she thought/assumed it would give her). Want is a complex concept, it's not so simple as just "accomplish goal A, game over." She's already demonstrated that she also seeks out relationships, and that alone should serve as enough of a driving desire to get her to treat people as people. Loneliness doesn't go away just because you understand exactly what's causing it.

As for the story surviving it all? This is the END of Errant Story. The story is not supposed to survive with Mejilis active and about.

Oh. Guess we probably ought to cancel the two sequels that address that, huh?

^-^'

[Rakshasa Taisab]

Oh. Guess we probably ought to cancel the two sequels that address that, huh?

^-^'

Yeah, people just don't truly appreciate the potential storylines that can come from combining a young virgin raised on japanese style erotic visual novels and the magical power to create and manipulate lifeforms.

Oh how I'm looking forward to the sequels yet to come.

[cburke]

The Prof seems a bit slow on the uptake. I mean, she is glowing, how could he miss that?

I bet casting a glow spell on yourself and talking like you possess infinite knowledge to make your professor think you've absorbed the power of a god is a classic prank at college. He probably rolled his eyes right before grabbing her. "This again? I thought you'd be more original, Hindori," he thought.

[taltamir]

It's troubling from a character development standpoint, because the events so far imply that Meiji is inherently a bully.

she only pushed him back, and only because he grabbed her. Not tolerating unwanted touching does not make one a bully.

BTW, "OMG, someone has broken into my office, is setting things on fire, and shows ridiculous amounts of magic power... I KNOW! I will grab her and shake, that will be the best course of action for sure!"
Heh, obviously he wasn't thinking when he did that.

[ChunLing]

I'm not going to suggest that Tsuirakuens generally or this guy particularly have a moral or mental leg up on, say, Patriarch Jeramel and friends.

On the other hand, Meji really doesn't seem to have any reason for doing what she's doing right now other than to bully something that she fully admits should be beneath her contempt.

And what is with the "she has been put down a lot and her life has been harder than most kids in her age/generation" meme? It might just be that I don't understand the sorrows of the economically privileged living in permissive societies, who are totally shocked and horrified by learning (as teens) that there are people who would like to kill them just because of their parentage (and not because they are, say, evil mage types). But I'm almost certain that most people in the Errantverse had things a lot harder growing up than Meji did. Most Tsuirakuens, even, who did not have an uber-wealthy grampa to threaten to cut them off financially.

Yes, she has some innate character defects that have given her life more drama than it otherwise might have had, and not all of those character defects are totally her fault. I wouldn't trade my dad for hers (and that's saying something) and her mom is...just not that wholesome an influence. Maybe not as horrific as Ian's mom, come to think of it, and really nobody we've seen thus far in the story seems to have an ideal parental situation, but...okay, Meji's mom seems about par for the course from what we've seen.