2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby mattz1010 » October 3rd, 2008, 5:45 pm

A BIO BOMB
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby RubberBandMan » October 3rd, 2008, 8:53 pm

I highly doubt it is his motives that people are upset with Ian, but his methods. Not the "Oh god, thats so evil!" kind of thing (This is the forum that worships Sarine and Jon, after they brain-washed a random bandit, forced him to betray his friends just so Jon could get a pick-me-up, and then either sent him off for a fate worse then death from Sarine, or just death from Jon)

Its not what he's doing so much as how he's doing it. If he was dedicated to taking out the elves, he's doing it in a really fucking stupid way. He only started killing elves because they were in the way of him and who he was trying to help. But then instead of getting them to safety with his insane-levels-of-power, he dragged Meji along instead of flying her to safety and then coming back to finish off the elves.

To say nothing of trying to bring the dead back to life, which is easily the stupidest thing you can ever do as anyone with any sense in this universe can tell you.

No one disliked Ian before for his motives, and activly defending him many times when the elven death squad was brought up, and that is because Ian was practical.

Sure, he used his magical hammer alot back then too, but he also thought and did things like sneak around, use other peoples cloths and make up a convincing lie to sneak him and Meji out of the city.

Now? All hammer, no thinking. Lots of peoples posts about what Ian is doing seems to carry the subtext with "If I had that kind of power I'd already be doing things like exploring outer space and making anti-gravity bras", because they already would of done everything else that could possibly be important, like saving half-elves and healing them, and making sure the elves would never bother them again (One way or another).
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby Itterind » October 4th, 2008, 6:10 am

proudhon wrote:Lets see
we absolve Jon of random murder
applaud an elf when the attack and threaten people over their children
WE have a race committing GENOCIDE! on half elfs. not really nice folks are they
a group of monks perpetuating their own power through murder
A church virtually enslaving a whole people
I don't see one of them have any angst about their use of power

But Ian is a marked dead half elf at birth
his first meeting with elves they try to blast his brain apart
Then tried to kill him in the capture. When he didn't know his own powers
yet
The kidnap Meji (and face it would have preferred her dead)

In the law their is a concept... You take your victims like you find them
so who set Ian off.... The guy can be reasoned with.... (sometimes) but everyone escalates
to violence around him and they "take their victim like they find him..

But we get a guy who has lived in fear all his life (rightfully so)

Ian Is attacked constantly, who is just learning to use powers he never knew he
had. the guy who has a "moral crisis" over his actions
and somehow we are all shocked by his lack of control and collateral
Damage
Granted he just learning his powers but as far as I can see his "motives" seem
better than anyone elses I've seen. And as to the use of power he's the
only person using it questioning his own use of power.
Give the church the monks the elves or even Jon for that matter
that kind of power and I don't think we would see any angst out of them
over the 'excess" damage their use of the power would cause.

Why is every body dumping on him, for the use of the power
I hope he keeps the power he seems the only one to care about what the consequences
of how he uses his power
Ian for god!!!!!!!!


Scale doesn't seem to be relevant in your world. It's nice to see you worship at the altar of the H-bomb. And Ian up till now, with his new regret, has not actually cared for the consequences, but for vengeance actually (though I agree with his right to it).
PS. Ian has not been possible to reason with up till now, due to mental instability.

I'd also argue with your moral questioning of people like Jon, Sarine and Veracia, but I'm not going to bother since it seems people have dealt with that already. As for Veracia, if you're going to defend Ian than they're regular saints (with the exception of the corrupt ones). They're into what they believe is right so much because they care about the consequences.


What I conclude personally is that Ian's motives are understandable, but they're still morally questionable disasters on a continental scale... heck, I wouldn't be too surprised if the whole world exploded in the end as he fights Senilis, even though I know that can't happen for story reasons.
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby mindstalk » October 4th, 2008, 12:45 pm

I don't think Meji has actually killed people on page for no reason. The thugs in Saus were trying to mug and rape her, the cops were threatening to shoot through her to get Jon. She talked about killing Jon, don't know if she would have, but he was a wanted criminal who'd just tried to use her as a hostage shield. Her painzapping the librarian who wouldn't help her is arguably more morally questionable than her killings.
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby Lurker 314 » October 5th, 2008, 1:07 am

I think Ian is one short story from getting booted out of Santuariel. The town probably would do it, if they found out about his actions in Emerylon. More important, I doubt Riley and Leah are going to take kindly to him abandoning Meji to the elves.
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby Slamlander » October 5th, 2008, 3:41 am

He didn't exactly abandon her since Jon was in plain sight. But then again, he may or may not have noticed.
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby Talancir » October 5th, 2008, 4:16 pm

proudhon wrote:blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
spacebar
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
spacebar
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


I honestly have to wonder if you made that post just to start a fight with people.
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby BloodHenge » October 6th, 2008, 1:51 am

Lurker 314 wrote:I think Ian is one short story from getting booted out of Santuariel. The town probably would do it, if they found out about his actions in Emerylon. More important, I doubt Riley and Leah are going to take kindly to him abandoning Meji to the elves.

"Booted out"?

They could ask him to leave, sure, but they're not getting rid of him unless he cooperates. (He probably would, but still...)
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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby Imp-Chan » October 6th, 2008, 3:12 pm

Actually, I'm glad to see discussion of proudhon's points. This is a comic which portrays people in all their moral ambiguity, and it makes sense to examine where we choose to draw the line of what is or is not acceptable.

In the past, I've simply chosen to describe the comic as "Protagonists instead of Good Guys" but that really doesn't say nearly so much as it might. I'd be interested to see why people have been so fond of Jon, Sarine, and even Meji, but hate Ian (whose motives are the closest to selfless we've yet seen).

Please note that I personally have hated Ian since the first time he was introduced, and that was BEFORE I met Poe or knew where this was going. My theory then as now is just that he's too shiny to be likable.

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Re: 2008-10-03 Wow, trippy! The house is burning in reverse!

Postby mindstalk » October 6th, 2008, 4:51 pm

Selfless motives, maybe, but poor execution. Going scatterbrained, abandoning the healing job of his village, blowing up Emerylon... not a good record. Meji talks a foul game but hasn't actually killed anyone (on page) who wasn't asking for it or threatening her. Sarine kills psycho errants, even if she also wants to get outdoors. Jon's an assassin, well, not much to say there. But follows annoying girls around to protect them without non-emotional pay. And probably hasn't killed as many people as, well, Ian did accidentally. Everyone else is (a) more effective (given their power) and (b) less collaterally damaging than Ianilis.
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