2009-10-14: Stop asking questions.

[mattz1010]

Haha, the 'double strangers' just reminded me of the

Spoiler: show

DOUBLE NIGGER

Sonic abominations.

spoiler'd for racism? it's just meant to be a joke though.

[Boss Out of Town]

Haha, the 'double strangers' just reminded me of the

Spoiler: show

DOUBLE NIGGER

Sonic abominations.

spoiler'd for racism? it's just meant to be a joke though.

Doesn't really matter. Pretty much every racist who uses the word "nigger" claims he's making a joke (whether he believes it or not), so you're encouraging and enabling them no matter what your intention.

[Boss Out of Town]

I recall Luminosita being called "semi-autonomous" or something along those lines once. Still a far step from sapience though. (Rant-tangent: argh it's not "sentience"! Dang dogs and cats and mice are all sentient, but none of them are sapient! [Though some pet owners would argue about that]. Sentient just means "feeling" [lit. "sensing"], it's sapient that means "thinking" [lit. "wise"], viz. "homo sapiens", meaning "thinking man" or "wise man").

There are a whole boatload of Science Fiction writers that would certainly disagree with you.

Really. We've been using the term to mean "human-like self-aware intelligence" for something like fifty years, so why nit-pick about whether we should be saying "sapient" instead of "sentient?"

I'd rather get on the case of the characters who say "there are no life-forms on this planet" when the landing party is standing there breathing atmospheric oxygen that can only have been produced by plants and bacteria. In fact, they sometimes say it while standing in front of plants.

[Forrest]

Really. We've been using the term to mean "human-like self-aware intelligence" for something like fifty years, so why nit-pick about whether we should be saying "sapient" instead of "sentient?"

Because the philosophical distinction between sapience and sentience well predates scifi's misuse of "sentient" to mean sapient, and is a point of confusion I have often seen in newcomers to philosophical subjects. (E.g. animal-rights advocates often appeal to animal sentience as a premise of their arguments, to which freshmen often object that animals aren't [at least obviously or conclusively] "sentient", meaning to say that they're not sapient). I'm just doing my small part to stave off the inevitable degradation of precise language.

I'd rather get on the case of the characters who say "there are no life-forms on this planet" when the landing party is standing there breathing atmospheric oxygen that can only have been produced by plants and bacteria. In fact, they sometimes say it while standing in front of plants.

I'll join you on that away mission, though. Especially egregious on shows that have some sort of "planet of living flames" episode too, from the old thought that fire meets certain overly broad definitions of life, except the only reason the crew considers THIS fire alive is because it is intelligent somehow...

[Boss Out of Town]

I'd rather get on the case of the characters who say "there are no life-forms on this planet" when the landing party is standing there breathing atmospheric oxygen that can only have been produced by plants and bacteria. In fact, they sometimes say it while standing in front of plants.

I'll join you on that away mission, though. Especially egregious on shows that have some sort of "planet of living flames" episode too, from the old thought that fire meets certain overly broad definitions of life, except the only reason the crew considers THIS fire alive is because it is intelligent somehow...

Yep. Not only that, it talks to humans and has emotions like humans and evvverrryyythinnnngg! Of course, the most egregarious glitch in the history of fantasy and/or science fiction is when "intelligence" of gaseous, machine, or inert matter has human emotions while lacking a human endocrine system.

[mindstalk]

I'd rather get on the case of the characters who say "there are no life-forms on this planet" when the landing party is standing there breathing atmospheric oxygen that can only have been produced by plants and bacteria. In fact, they sometimes say it while standing in front of plants.

I'll join you on that away mission, though. Especially egregious on shows that have some sort of "planet of living flames" episode too, from the old thought that fire meets certain overly broad definitions of life, except the only reason the crew considers THIS fire alive is because it is intelligent somehow...

Yep. Not only that, it talks to humans and has emotions like humans and evvverrryyythinnnngg! Of course, the most egregarious glitch in the history of fantasy and/or science fiction is when "intelligence" of gaseous, machine, or inert matter has human emotions while lacking a human endocrine system.

That's not necessarily a glitch. Evolved organisms, or artificial organisms designed in emulation of evolved ones, might well have analogous emotions: fear of danger, love of family, anger when interests are threatened -- and have mechanisms to support that. It's no more incongruous than being intelligent without a human brain.

[Forrest]

I found the Sliders episode I was thinking of (or at least a... ahem... scorching review thereof).

[Boss Out of Town]

That's not necessarily a glitch. Evolved organisms, or artificial organisms designed in emulation of evolved ones, might well have analogous emotions: fear of danger, love of family, anger when interests are threatened -- and have mechanisms to support that. It's no more incongruous than being intelligent without a human brain.

Being intelligent, yes, but having a specific human intelligence and human emotions without a human biology?

Of course, alien intelligences tend to have the culture-specific attitudes of whoever the writer is for the story, so . . .

[Forrest]

Being intelligent, yes, but having a specific human intelligence and human emotions without a human biology?

I'd be willing to bet that any recognizably sapient alien, artificial, or otherwise nonhuman person would still experience the same kinds of basic emotions - fear (a repulsive feeling compelling you away from something), anger or hate (a repulsive feeling compelling you to push something away from you), love (an attractive feeling compelling you toward something), possessiveness or jealousy (an attractive feeling compelling you to pull or keep something to yourself), etc. They would certainly feel those kinds of emotions in response to different things, though, e.g. "I regularly mate with A, but now B is trying to mate with A" would not provoke jealousy and anger amongst a non-monogamous (or asexual) species like it does in most humans. And of course when they felt said emotions they wouldn't necessarily express them the same way, e.g. crying, smiling, trembling, yelling, etc.

[pillar_of_hate]

Yep. Not only that, it talks to humans and has emotions like humans and evvverrryyythinnnngg! Of course, the most egregarious glitch in the history of fantasy and/or science fiction is when "intelligence" of gaseous, machine, or inert matter has human emotions while lacking a human endocrine system.

How do you know it doesn't? Have you dissected one?