too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Because it only took Viking-Sensei three years (and the approaching end of Errant Story) to come up with a better name for "General Discussions"
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Boss Out of Town
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

mindstalk wrote:The US (as a country, not just government) spends about 3% of GDP on the military (maybe bigger these days) and 15% on health care. Other First World countries spend 1-3% on defense and 10% on health care. They also have longer life expectancies, and somewhat smaller GDP per capita (though that gets tricky). The idea that other countries can afford universal health care only because we're defending them is bunk.
Yeah, and what is there to defend all those countries from, other than ourselves? Cripes, we spend more on our military than all the other nations in the world combined, and we still have an army too small to actually conquer someone, like the old-style empires used to do. The Brits knew how to run an empire. Never invade anyone unless the accountants down at the treasury can prove that the peasants you're "enlightening" can actually pay for the "security" and "good government" you're going to inflict on them. Then you educate their elites in Western philosophy so they eventually decide to boot you the hell out and run the country themselves. Worked for the Americans, the Indians, the Aussies, and a number of African nations.

Something like 70% of the American citizenry would support a plan for national health insurance and cost cutting measures. Unfortunately, the medical industry that sucks up 15% of our GNP like a giant, bloody-mouthed lamprey is spending a small slice of their profits to buy politicians and badger TV networks so the subject never gets a fair public discussion.

Anyway, I hope Poe can get better without any complications. Try to hang on until the next election. With the dollar losing value, the real estate bubble imploding, and the economy generally sludging up, a lot more people are going to be losing their coverage. National health may suddenly look like a good deal right about the time the Democrats actually get a real majority instead of the sham one they've had the last year or so.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Weirdonian »

They could also move to Massachusetts, we've got mandatory health care out here now for everyone. I signed up for it (if I didn't and got really sick and needed the insurance I'd have to pay an ever-increasing penalty to sign up for it) and get it free because I'm unemployed, but I'm usualy not ever sick enough to warrant having to go to the doctor. I'm a little conflicted about it all though. On the one hand, I'd hate foisting someone else's tax dollars to cure my own ills, but on the other the government wastes billions of dollars every year as it is and that if I or someone else didn't use that money they'd probably just piss it away on something else even more assinine anyway.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by BloodHenge »

It seems that several people didn't get the joke. A joke which, for the record, is on us.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by BandMan2K »

Hey Impy,

I'm in the same boat of unemployed and with no insurance. I was on Medicare until I was about 18 then pretty much out of my pocket ever since. When my mom had a heart attack (again with no insurance) she was referred to the Center for Family Health which is a discount setup. it's not insurance but if you go to their CFH-backed doctors, dentists & other practictioners, you would only have to pay 1/10th of the total cost. It helped her from having a bill in the tens of thousands of dollars for two hospital stays, transportation & surgery coupled with recovery & medications. I got into CFH when I had my bronchitis, pneumonia, upper respiratory infection & flare-up of my asthma. What would've cost 150 dollars for the visit was only 15 dollars and that discount also goes to my medications.

Perhaps you should try to look for government-backed (State or Fed, I'm not sure) discount programs. It's not insurance but it'll definately help with the costs. Mind you, you'll have to meet criteria and be within a certain bracket to be eligible but it can't hurt to look around.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Vavrek »

Woo, health care debate. Gotta love those. So MA has a socialized health care system now? Good to know, I'll ask some friends about it.

I'm sorry to hear all that, Impy. I know how sad I'd feel, how worried, if I came to the site one day and the top of the page said "Poe is hospitalized and racking up medical bills, if you want Errant Story to continue any time this year, donate now." I hope everything works out.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

The civility of the discussion is a good sign. My wife and I have barely managed to avoid the same trap the past few years, while I was between "permanent" jobs.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Slamlander »

This isn't nearly as much debate as it is a much deserved gripe session. I hear the same issues from coast to coast. Poe and Impy are off the books and can't get on them. For that matter, so am I (type II Diabetes and one TIA, over 50). What they don't necessarily know but I can verify, is that this makes one unemployable, in modern USA. One reason I'm in Europe.

Over here;
* Health Insurance is mandatory. However because it is mandatory, the prices are regulated (can't do one without the other ... think about it; If it's mandatory then it had damned well better be price-regulated!)
* They cannot turn down ANYONE!
* Insurance is NOT tied to an employer and you can take it with you (No COBRA issues and no self-insured, but not covered, corporate tax evasion scams)
* You can get a job without passing a health test, as long as you are insured (I have a story behind that one)
* Health Insurance companies are NOT allowed to drop ANYONE! (I found out I had type II diabetes when my US health insurance dropped me after a piss test. I also lost my job within the week, because I was suddenly uninsured. I've been self-employed ever since.)

Nah, I don't have an axe to grind. It's already well sharpened. The whole US healthcare system is severely broken. I don't like Michael Moore much but he's not that far wrong. Employer-based insurance has become a corporate tax evasion scam. We need to completely separate health insurance from employment, like auto insurance is. Then we need to regulate the shit (crooks) out of it. Of course, health insurance companies don't like it and that's why it hasn't happened yet.
Last edited by Slamlander on January 8th, 2008, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by DarkIntruder »

I would just like to point out that Canada is not the epitome of medical perfection, in case anyone got that feeling.


We have many, many problems with our health care system. Most of them come with the territory of being subsidized by the government. The big problems are huge hospital waits, and shortages of doctors and nurses.

Because hospitals cannot charge whatever they want over here, medical professionals get paid less. Thus, many decide to move to the States, where they will make more money.

Compounding the problem is a stupid, stupid policy of requiring doctors who got their medical degrees in other countries (specifically India, Pakistan, Korea, ect.) to have to almost completely retrain in order to be allowed to practice medicine. Many cannot afford this, so we a relatively large amount of cab drivers who possess medical degrees.

That being said, as long as you have a health card, you can receive medical treatment, both in the hospital, and through a private practioner. Dental care is still mostly paid for privately. Our healthcare is a mix of publicly funded and privately funded for-profit organizations. Private doctors are mostly like self-employed businesses, paid by the Government (via Medicare).

Privitization has started to move in though, due to the fact that people who can afford it usually don't want to wait. Something like 18 weeks for elective operations, on average.

Healthcare is free, by drugs are not. Drug plans are usually easy enough to come by, but if even you don't have one, perscription drugs are quite a bit cheaper here, due to price control. Non-perscription drugs are slightly more expensive though.

The wikipedia article outlines it quite well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28Canada%29
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

Slamlander wrote:This isn't nearly as much debate as it is a much deserved gripe session. I hear the same issues from coast to coast. Poe and Impy are off the books and can't get on them. For that matter, so am I (type II Diabetes and one TIA, over 50). What they don't necessarily know but I can verify, is that this makes one unemployable, in modern USA. One reason I'm in Europe.
We have the advantage that it is unlikely that anyone on the forum is rich enough to NOT worry about their health care. I've got a friend who sold his business for $5 mil a couple of years ago and he is still being careful to find a job with good coverage. With a wife and three kids, one or two severe health problems could eat all of that away. He is still trying to find something he can afford that will cover his health costs when he retires, which won't be for another 20 years. Some of the plans he's considered will cost him tens of thousands of dollars per year.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

DarkIntruder wrote:Because hospitals cannot charge whatever they want over here, medical professionals get paid less. Thus, many decide to move to the States, where they will make more money.
I wish 'em luck. Our nurses and general practitioners are horribly overworked and underpaid. The specialists get rich, but everyone else is buried in expenses and bureaucracy.
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