too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

[Slamlander]

Because hospitals cannot charge whatever they want over here, medical professionals get paid less. Thus, many decide to move to the States, where they will make more money.

I wish 'em luck. Our nurses and general practitioners are horribly overworked and underpaid. The specialists get rich, but everyone else is buried in expenses and bureaucracy.

That's because it's the Insurance Companies and hospital administrators that make the money and not the actual healthcare providers.

Two equally perfidious thieves; Hospital Administrator, Health Insurance executive. I can't decide which to shoot first.

[DarkIntruder]

That brings up a question that I've often pondered.

If there was a button that you could press, that would make all the scum-sucking right-wing bureaucrats, religious zealots, and general close-minded conservative idiots disappear from the face of the earth, would you press it?

Is intolerance of intolerance still intolerance?

[BloodHenge]

If there was a button that you could press, that would make all the scum-sucking right-wing bureaucrats, religious zealots, and general close-minded conservative idiots disappear from the face of the earth, would you press it?

Are you implying that everyone worth wiping out is on the same side of the aisle?

[DarkIntruder]

No, but a great deal of them seem to be. At least from my point of view. However, notice I didn't say I would push such a button, if it so existed. Also, I didn't say that all Right-Wingers were worthy of such treatment.

I may not agree with what people think, say, do, whatever. But they can express them, the same way I can. They're perfectly free to feel the exact same way about me.

Yes, I also realize that a great deal of Left-Wingers are also idiots as well. Going to either extreme is never good.

[zanntos]

No, but a great deal of them seem to be. At least from my point of view. However, notice I didn't say I would push such a button, if it so existed. Also, I didn't say that all Right-Wingers were worthy of such treatment.

I may not agree with what people think, say, do, whatever. But they can express them, the same way I can. They're perfectly free to feel the exact same way about me.

Yes, I also realize that a great deal of Left-Wingers are also idiots as well. Going to either extreme is never good.

My opinion based on set theory.

People = mostly idiots, all <organization, group, creed, culture> are made of people, therefore all <organization, group, creed, culture> are mostly idiots.

So quiet frankly the button isn't worth pushing unless it's a much broader "exterminate most of humanity" style application.
And as most people would rather not push a button that will probably kill themselves as well, it defeats the purpose of the existence of said button.

[Graybeard]

That brings up a question that I've often pondered.

If there was a button that you could press, that would make all the scum-sucking right-wing bureaucrats, religious zealots, and general close-minded conservative idiots disappear from the face of the earth, would you press it?

No, for several reasons.

First, they're occasionally amusing.

Second, the fact that extremists tend to be wrong on so many things doesn't keep them from sometimes being right. They're not as often right as they think they are, but who is?

Third, nature abhors a vacuum, including a vacuum in politics. Disintegration of nut jobs leads to the next batch of nut jobs -- and there will be one -- going underground, until they're strong enough to resist the disintegration button/agency, and maybe overcome it -- at which point the counter-purge begins. And if you are part of that button/agency, at that point you're screwed.

Finally, most important, and tied to the second: in a world where there are no extremists, moderate positions look extreme. And that is a bad thing, because they become targets of the next round of purges waged against extremists. History tells us that that happens with frightening regularity.

[BandMan2K]

That brings up a question that I've often pondered.

If there was a button that you could press, that would make all the scum-sucking right-wing bureaucrats, religious zealots, and general close-minded conservative idiots disappear from the face of the earth, would you press it?

Is intolerance of intolerance still intolerance?

Hell yeah I'd press it. However before I did, I would have to re-program the button's parameters so that those that argue against Comprehensive National Healthcare would have no insurance & contract a disease. Then let THEM have fun trying to work the current broken system & stay alive long enough for the procedures to be enacted upon them. Give them a dose of their own medicine.

Now if I had no choice but to use the button for it's original perscribed function...I might still use it. Depends on whether I'm in a shitty mood and ready to give The Finger to the entire human race. There are those days...

[Cassanne]

Wait... in America an insurance company can drop you for getting sick?? Why the hell does anyone pay them anything then?

Where I live (Netherlands) i's mandatory to have health insurance, the insurance is not tied to your job. It gets more and more expensive though, due to recent implementation of the lovely 'free market'.
It's not perfect, but at least they have to accept everyone and can't drop you. And no need to avoid doctors or medicines when you need them.

Other than that, we have similar problems to what Darkintruder wrote about Canada.

[zanntos]

I'm curious if rampant lawsuits due to "malpractice" plague other nations like they seem to plague the US, maybe it's just my living here in the US and not elsewhere that i feel like the US is sue happy and as a result contribute to royally screwing things like health care up. Of course the doctors are insanely expensive if have to pay thousands of dollars a month per doctor in malpractice insurance.

My personal perspective on increasing health care costs in the US is at least due in part to that. Maybe i'm a bit of a monster but there reaches a point where you HAVE to ask how much a human life is honestly worth, not just in medical lawsuits, but in general. Honestly if generic government office drone making 50K a year at best sues even in worst case ends up crippled or even killed how much is their life honestly worth, you see lawsuits with numbers in the 5-10 million dollar price tag range. I personally feel that's crazy, even assuming they worked for the next 10-20 years they wouldn't have made that much money, particularly after taxes and *gasp* insurance takes takes their piece. Of course i tend to extend that annoyance to morons sueing for spilling their coffee in their lap and sueing the fast food joint for not having a "no shit, it's hot" label on the stupid coffee cup.

How could the US solve it's healthcare problem, in my opinion they simply can't. Cost, doctors are a limited resource and also a needed one, so as a result just by economics the cost of medical attention would be naturally high by if nothing else supply and demand. Get more doctors? Not really possible, medical school time and cost simply restricts how many people even inclined to become doctors can actually do it, not even paying attention to difficulty, like DarkIntruder mentioned the US is already actively attracting foreign doctors to try to fill the medical shortage. The insurance the doctors themselves have to pay for the above mentioned lawsuits, that cost needs to be passed along somewhere.

What about medical research, massive amounts of cost associated with the creation of new medicine, and the need to cover the costs in your working products for when something goes wrong and you're eating yet another 100 million dollar+ class action lawsuit. And what about the cost of projects that simply don't pan out.

Ok, i guess that's enough semi-random ranting from me, but in my opinion right, left, it doesn't matter it can't be fixed, it's a free market and medicine is big business. Elect whomever you want even if you see a 100% <your party that's going to save us all> in the government it will change nothing because they simply will not be able to address all the problems without fundamentally changing the US itself. Everything takes money and that money has to come from somewhere, if the government "foots the bill" you'll either pay for it in your taxes or in the ever increasing national debt until the debt gets big enough that the dollar is completely devalued and the economy collapses. Oh yes, Gold is up 30% this past year :p

[DarkIntruder]

I'm curious if rampant lawsuits due to "malpractice" plague other nations like they seem to plague the US, maybe it's just my living here in the US and not elsewhere that i feel like the US is sue happy and as a result contribute to royally screwing things like health care up. Of course the doctors are insanely expensive if have to pay thousands of dollars a month per doctor in malpractice insurance.

We have medical malpractice suits up here, but they're nowhere near as rampant as in the US. Part of the reason I think is that that plaintiff has to prove that the Doctor was negligent and did not do what a "reasonable doctor" would have done in the same situation. It's placing the onus on the plaintiff instead of the defendant. You have to prove that damage was caused, via a medical report. You also have to prove that the damage caused was a result of the negligent action. It's much more difficult to sue for medical malpractice.