too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Because it only took Viking-Sensei three years (and the approaching end of Errant Story) to come up with a better name for "General Discussions"
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BloodHenge
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by BloodHenge »

Cassanne wrote:Wait... in America an insurance company can drop you for getting sick?? Why the hell does anyone pay them anything then?
They can (apparently) drop you for getting excessively sick. I don't know anyone in person that it's happened to. Maybe it has something to do with the severity and likely duration of the illness. I know that it'd be prohibitively expensive to insure myself if I couldn't get insurance through my job. (UPS, for the record, has an excellent health care package, at least for the average person.)
zanntos wrote:I'm curious if rampant lawsuits due to "malpractice" plague other nations like they seem to plague the US, maybe it's just my living here in the US and not elsewhere that i feel like the US is sue happy and as a result contribute to royally screwing things like health care up.
As I understand, that mostly varies from state to state. (I hear that, for a while, it was nearly impossible to find an obstetrician in Mississippi.) My sister is a doctor in NYC, and her hospital mostly takes care of malpractice insurance and lawyers. (The insurance still comes out of her check, most likely, but she doesn't have to mess with the paperwork or anything.)
zanntos wrote:What about medical research, massive amounts of cost associated with the creation of new medicine, and the need to cover the costs in your working products for when something goes wrong and you're eating yet another 100 million dollar+ class action lawsuit. And what about the cost of projects that simply don't pan out.
Class action law suits are a joke. The plaintiffs only get a pittance out of the settlement. Lawyers are the only ones getting rich off those.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

zanntos wrote:I'm curious if rampant lawsuits due to "malpractice" plague other nations like they seem to plague the US, maybe it's just my living here in the US and not elsewhere that i feel like the US is sue happy and as a result contribute to royally screwing things like health care up. Of course the doctors are insanely expensive if have to pay thousands of dollars a month per doctor in malpractice insurance.
While the fear of lawsuits is a cancer in American society in general, the statistical evidence is that there is not that much money being paid to actual medical plaintiffs, after appeals and settlements. The effect on doctors is quite real, of course, as the threat of lawsuits allows lawyers and insurance companies to put the screws to 'em financially and allows them to justify interfering in actual diagnosis and treatment.

We get nuisance calls from Blue Cross regularly, asking us to sign up for a program that allows their people to give us "advice" on our medical needs. No thanks, that's the doctor's job.
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zanntos
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by zanntos »

BloodHenge wrote: Class action law suits are a joke. The plaintiffs only get a pittance out of the settlement. Lawyers are the only ones getting rich off those.
Agreed, but it effects our prices so it ranks fairly high on my idiocy list. Worthless for the people that are actually harmed by the latest goofed drug, but paycheck time for lawyers on either side, and we get to foot the bill in whatever other drugs the company makes that hasn't hit the generics market yet.
Boss Out of Town wrote:While the fear of lawsuits is a cancer in American society in general, the statistical evidence is that there is not that much money being paid to actual medical plaintiffs, after appeals and settlements. The effect on doctors is quite real, of course, as the threat of lawsuits allows lawyers and insurance companies to put the screws to 'em financially and allows them to justify interfering in actual diagnosis and treatment.
Sounds like my perspective, lawsuits on everything for anything and they only really pay off for the lawyers, and the consumer in the end foots the bill.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by BandMan2K »

Cassanne wrote:Wait... in America an insurance company can drop you for getting sick?? Why the hell does anyone pay them anything then?

Where I live (Netherlands) i's mandatory to have health insurance, the insurance is not tied to your job. It gets more and more expensive though, due to recent implementation of the lovely 'free market'.
It's not perfect, but at least they have to accept everyone and can't drop you. And no need to avoid doctors or medicines when you need them.

Other than that, we have similar problems to what Darkintruder wrote about Canada.
There are the many instances of medical malpractice & Class action lawsuits as stipulated earlier but even if those are removed there are still ways for you to be dropped by one's insurance for being sick. However, that can be quite a pain in the ol' tookus so they do the next best thing - they wait you out.

Por ejemplo: You need a liver transplant. You've been out of work for the most part on sick leave. You need the transplant to survive. The bean counters @ the insurance company do a Cost-Benefit Analysis and determine that with the total cost of surgery, recovery & interest accumulated on the payment back will be too much for you to pay within your lifetime. Thus, they just say "We will not approve this operation, due to potential medical concerns." You can appeal and say, "I know you're more concerned about the money and I need this transplant. You need to pay for it." They'll give you the runaround and figure (most of the time correctly) that they can tie the appeals up in red tape. By the time it comes up and they are forced to approve it, you're either too sick for surgery or already dead & thusly no longer needing said transplant.

It happens more often than you think.

Now in regards to your question of "Why do we pay them anything in the first place?" For most places, it's mandatory. The government doesn't want to be left holding the check for the people's ills. It (in it's current iteration) doesn't think that health care is within the purview of the Federal government. It should be left in the hands of the states & commercial HMO's. This is why there are many different solutions that vary from state to state for those without, leaving massive cracks for them to fall through & legistlation that try to remove the governments from liability in anything & everything...brought up thanks to the litigious nature of America as posted earlier. You have a previous condition, you're too much of a liability & thus non-insureable. It's in the same vein as doing credit checks: Gotta have credit. People mess up on the credit cards. Don't pay them off fast enough. Credit goes bad. They have to pay more for homes & have higher interest rates when borrowing cash from banks for said large purchases. It's like the system, in all it's facets, is geared to make Americans falter. Once they falter, it's like quicksand and doesn't let up until you're so far into the clutches that you can't get away.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Viking-Sensei »

Yeah, usually your best bet if you're sick sick is for the doctors to cure you before your insurance company has a chance to officially say no. Doctors are still at least technically bound by their hypocratical oath... (it bugs them if you're dying to point this out to them) and on the counterswing if you WOULD be approved and they didn't act on you that might give you pause to sue them for malpractice.

Organs... organ replacements, you're almost always screwed on unless you're an adorable 12 year old white girl. Or, for some odd reason, an embittered alcoholoc on your third liver... they always seem to be able to get livers.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Slamlander »

BloodHenge wrote:
Cassanne wrote:Wait... in America an insurance company can drop you for getting sick?? Why the hell does anyone pay them anything then?
They can (apparently) drop you for getting excessively sick. I don't know anyone in person that it's happened to. Maybe it has something to do with the severity and likely duration of the illness. I know that it'd be prohibitively expensive to insure myself if I couldn't get insurance through my job. (UPS, for the record, has an excellent health care package, at least for the average person.)
Yes, you do and type II Diabetes is a chronic illness with no cure. Just the same, they did have to follow a process which required them knowing I had it before I did. It isn't just for drug abuse that they require a urine test prior to employment.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Boss Out of Town »

Viking-Sensei wrote:Yeah, usually your best bet if you're sick sick is for the doctors to cure you before your insurance company has a chance to officially say no. Doctors are still at least technically bound by their hypocratical oath... (it bugs them if you're dying to point this out to them) and on the counterswing if you WOULD be approved and they didn't act on you that might give you pause to sue them for malpractice.

Organs... organ replacements, you're almost always screwed on unless you're an adorable 12 year old white girl. Or, for some odd reason, an embittered alcoholoc on your third liver... they always seem to be able to get livers.
Particularly if they are famous baseball players. Micky Mantle is the ur-example. He was a terrible risk and the transplant failed after only a year or so.

The insurance companies make every effort to turn down requests for coverage and have policies and procedures for scoring the results. An article slipped into the newspapers in California recently about a woman from one of the major compaines who got a corporate award for refusing the most coverage, dollar wise. A friend of mine has just this job working for a Chicago-based firm. When he nearly died of a pancreatic infection last summer, he reported he didn't have a bit of trouble getting various approvals. That company, at least, takes care of its own.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by SkArcher »

Another part of your problem (outsiders view here), is that your healthcare system is biased towards the (very profitable) process of curing illness when it has occured, instead of the (less profitable, but more cost effective) notion of preventitive medicine.

This isn't helped by the fact that the insurance for medicine setup you have encourages people *not* to see doctors early, but instead to wait and only see a doctor if they are genuinely ill.
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zanntos
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by zanntos »

Actually my insurance tends to prefer if you come in early and often to waiting for something really bad to set in. But i've got decent medical from my job so i generaly just need to cough up the co-payments. and that's doable. Personally it would cost me alot more if i had to go to the hospital for something really bad, or ever worse if i have to actually STAY at the hospital. The problem is in general i know at least i tend to drag my feet about going to the doctors. I feel i'm almost as likely to catch something from someone else there as get whatever my problem is fixed. Doctors waiting rooms are plague central before they take you back to the examination rooms.
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Re: too busy dieing right now to to finish it up in time.

Post by Graybeard »

SkArcher wrote:Another part of your problem (outsiders view here), is that your healthcare system is biased towards the (very profitable) process of curing illness when it has occured, instead of the (less profitable, but more cost effective) notion of preventitive medicine.

This isn't helped by the fact that the insurance for medicine setup you have encourages people *not* to see doctors early, but instead to wait and only see a doctor if they are genuinely ill.
That isn't my experience at all. The group plan that I'm in makes all the preventative stuff almost cost-free to me. It's the things that involve actual medical procedures, but are not life and death, that they don't handle well (I will stop short of saying "fairly").
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