Voting 2008...

Because it only took Viking-Sensei three years (and the approaching end of Errant Story) to come up with a better name for "General Discussions"
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Sareth
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Sareth »

Well said, Graybeard.

Add to that, ultimately, the President can ask for laws, and he can veto (overrideable) laws, but in the end it is CONGRESS that makes the laws that govern what rights are taken away and what taxes we suffer under. We really need to pay close attention.

Here in Idaho it's interesting as we have two career politicians attempting to take the seat Larry "Wide Stance In the Toilet Stall" Craig is vacating...
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Imp-Chan »

Graybeard wrote: One of the challenges the next president will face is a Congress that has become intensely, hatefully polarized, to the point where rational, constructive debate of national problems is next to impossible.

My personal reaction on that one is "Throw The Rascals Out."
That reverses the polarity, but it doesn't actually neutralize the neutron moron flow.

^-^'
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Sareth
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Sareth »

Imp-Chan wrote:
Graybeard wrote: One of the challenges the next president will face is a Congress that has become intensely, hatefully polarized, to the point where rational, constructive debate of national problems is next to impossible.

My personal reaction on that one is "Throw The Rascals Out."
That reverses the polarity, but it doesn't actually neutralize the neutron moron flow.

^-^'
To do that we'd have to lock the doors of Congress, I think...

[Snarky Mode: Off]
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Viking-Sensei »

Really, nobody has a right to be surprised about Congress. I mean, it's in the name... after all, if Pro is the opposite of Con, than the opposite of Progress would be... you know.
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LordofNightmares
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by LordofNightmares »

Viking-Sensei wrote:Really, nobody has a right to be surprised about Congress. I mean, it's in the name... after all, if Pro is the opposite of Con, than the opposite of Progress would be... you know.
That is a good way to look at it and the way it has been it is sad but true.
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Re: Voting 2008...

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Graybeard wrote:I'm curious how this election looks to people outside the U S of A. There are Canadian, and overseas, readers here. Could some of you folks share views, ideally of those around you as well as your own?
What I hate most about GWB is the attitude his government emanates. He's been acting like a schoolyard bully (If you're not with us...) to the western states and NATO partners. The US troops sent to Iraq had a mindset of "Do as we say and we'll show you freedom". He's been doing everything that I'm aware of in "his way", which was an unbelievably stupid way, while pushing and dragging and forcing the rest of the western world along or aside.

So, how does this election look from my place, Germany? Obama held a speech here, I've seen it on TV. Not that I could really judge his personality from such show events, but I do have hope that he would actually bring back some respect into the dealings with other states. And that applies for the western states as well as for the problem regions. I have not seen much from McCain, so I can only hope that he would also work towards a respectful atmosphere in international relations, and if it's only because he is smart enough to know that it cannot work any other way. Something GWB will not learn in his lifetime anymore.

I can't comment on any specific details of their programs. Your elections are too remote and not something I can influence, so I'm not going to spend time on following up on that level of detail. I do have a relatively high income and have to pay a lot of taxes, but I'm generally of the opinion that I can afford that, while many people have signifcantly less to live from. Of course it would be best to give everybody a job that earns them a living, but that's a long way to go. Here as well as on your side of the pond.
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Boss Out of Town
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Re: Voting 2008...

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Dubioso's impression of GW is shared by, at this point, about 2/3rds of all Americans. We're been governed for 8 years by middle-aged spoiled children in $3000 dollar suits.* There have always been politicians and political operatives like this in Washington, but not since Joe McCarthy's day** have they been allowed to actually have a role in running the government. They always stayed on the fringes, making noise and posturing, while a respectable, well-mannered political elite made all the decisions. The traditional social hierarchy has been up-ended.


* GW has his made by a tailor in Chicago.
** And before that, Andrew Johnson.
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Viking-Sensei »

dubioso wrote:What I hate most about GWB is the attitude his government emanates. He's been acting like a schoolyard bully...
If it helps, he's acting like that to his own people as well. For the longest time, he had the jeering squad of children too afraid of him to disagree with him standing behind him, egging him on (as long as it wasn't them he was targetting)... and much like the typical bully, as his supporters realized how little of an actual threat he was they've slowly migrated away, to the 80% + who've been standing against him all this time.

I think, when we look back at him through the filter of history, he'll be the first president to officially be recognized as having a "Lame Duck" second term, since Bush has been almost completely useless (except for making things worse) since he got re-elected.
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Sareth
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Re: Voting 2008...

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Boss Out of Town wrote:Dubioso's impression of GW is shared by, at this point, about 2/3rds of all Americans. We're been governed for 8 years by middle-aged spoiled children in $3000 dollar suits.* There have always been politicians and political operatives like this in Washington, but not since Joe McCarthy's day** have they been allowed to actually have a role in running the government. They always stayed on the fringes, making noise and posturing, while a respectable, well-mannered political elite made all the decisions. The traditional social hierarchy has been up-ended.
Sorry. Not that I'm a GW fan (I'm not *shudder*) But I do have a little issue with the idea that the previous presidents were respectable. Clinton was busy making a laughing stock of the White House in the eyes of a world that viewed our leader as a womanizing con man, GW the 1st waged a war that failed to do anything and managed to raise taxes enough even Democrats were asking WTF and managed to fail to get re-elected while running against a little known yutz from redneckville. Reagan was viewed by many as some trigger happy cowboy who was none to bright but had smart advisors. Prior to that we had Jimmy Carter (does ANYONE think he was a GOOD leader?) Before that we had Ford, who was never elected to the job and whose one notable deed was to pardon Nixon. Nixon... Yeah. Do I even need to bother? Lyndon B...

It's not until JFK we get to a president that is universally well regarded as being a decent, well respected and well behaved President. Bush is just the latest in a line of scoundrels, and given the two main party candidates we have now, I have no hopes of improvement in the near future...

We seem to be getting the government we deserve.
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Re: Voting 2008...

Post by Boss Out of Town »

Sareth wrote:
Boss Out of Town wrote:Dubioso's impression of GW is shared by, at this point, about 2/3rds of all Americans. We're been governed for 8 years by middle-aged spoiled children in $3000 dollar suits.* There have always been politicians and political operatives like this in Washington, but not since Joe McCarthy's day** have they been allowed to actually have a role in running the government. They always stayed on the fringes, making noise and posturing, while a respectable, well-mannered political elite made all the decisions. The traditional social hierarchy has been up-ended.
Sorry. Not that I'm a GW fan (I'm not *shudder*) But I do have a little issue with the idea that the previous presidents were respectable.
To clarify: I was not using a personal definition of respectable, but a historical one. While standards of behavior and morality change with time, and are routinely hypocritical, there are always cultural norms.

The American tradition for politicians is suit and tie middle-class in appearance, a vague but malleable honesty and respect in political intercourse, a tolerance of vice beneath the surface, avoidance of emotional extremes, an appreciation of education and professional expertise, and respect for the traditions of the constitution and the "Founding Fathers."

GWB and his "Bushies" have abused or overthrown virtually all of these standards. At best, they manage the hypocritical respectability of the dirtiest American machine politics, at worst the table-banging thuggery of tin-pot dictators.
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