Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

[Sareth]

I realize most of you will probably find this to be a horrificly dumb idea, but as symbolic gestures I have got to admire the sheer nerve of this one.

Congress has on it's agenda for this session HR.45. (a.k.a "Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009.") This bill would, if passed, require ALL gun owners to licensed by the Federal Government in order to own fire arms. It also includes provisions that would make it a criminal act (punishable with up to ten years in prison) for having both firearm and ammunition on any property that MIGHT have anyone under 18 come onto the property at any time. Yes, even if the gun is locked in a safe in the attic with a trigger lock and the ammo is in a lock box in a shed out back.

Idaho's legislature, after reviewing the bill (available on the U.S. Congress website, where I read it) replied with the following: http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legisl ... HJM003.pdf

To summarize, Idaho stated that this law clearly violates the 2nd Ammendment, and the principle of an armed populace as a final check and balance against an out of control government. Further, Idaho says, a similar law in Washington D.C. was struck down just last year by the Supreme Court, so Congress knows this is a clear violation. As such, Idaho is hereby ordering Congress to CEASE AND DESIST all efforts to violate the Constitution and the rights of gun owners.

That's right, Idaho just issued Congress a Cease and Desist order.

Does this actually accomplish anything realistically speaking? No. I expect most of Congress won't even notice, and most of the rest won't care. Is it enforcable? Not at all. But does it do anything? YES! It puts Congress on notice that Idaho is sick and tired of Congress jackassery, and that if Congress keeps it up, Idaho WILL tell them where they can stuff it. Should the bill pass (and I expect it will) expect Idaho to immediately contest it in court, and Congress will have no chance to say they didn't expect it.

Shoot, I wonder if anyone in the Idaho Legislature is familiar with the concept of Nullification?

[davester65]

I for one agree with it. Congress needs to concentrate on fixing the financial crisis that they caused and stop trying to punish law abiding citizens for daring to actually use their constitutional rights once in a while.

[Sareth]

I have started doing a little research. It turns out a large number of states are doing this. I've read seven similar bills from places like New Hampshire, Montana, Oklahoma... And I've seen indications that as many as 30 are in the process. That's... a lot.

Hell, the New Hampshire version is scary, as it not only says "Cease and Desist" but then goes further. It states that any future laws which New Hampshire interprets as exceeding the Constitution shall be null and void within New Hampshire, pursuant to Articles 9 and 10 of the Constitution. Further, it intends to start looking at laws already on the books, and nullifying any of them that exceed the authority granted by the Constitution. If Congress persists in violating the Cease and Desist and continues to exceed it's mandate, then, as the Constitution is a contract creating the Federal Government as an agent of the individual states, New Hampshire reserves the right to send agents to the various states to discuss disolving the Federal Government and convening a new Constitutional Convention which any state may chose to join or not join.

In short, New Hampshire is raising the specter of Secession.

[Boss Out of Town]

Okay, I'll take a few minutes out to provide a little alternative input.

There is no prospect of any gun control legislation coming up in the congress at any time in the foreseeable future, just as there has been no such prospect over the past decade. There is no serious factional support in the congress for such legislation, and powerful factional resistance to it. The current Democratic leadership has even ruled out any renewal of the Brady Bill. They don't want to waste time on issues that are going nowhere and might disrupt the more critical debates that will occupy the congress for the next few years.

Both liberal and conservative congress-people, like the state legislatures you mention, routinely put forward bills and resolutions they know are going nowhere, as statements of principle, as bargaining chips, or as political grand-standing.

There are a lot of lives that could be saved if we could reduce the number of cheap and deadly weapons in circulation, but no legislation comprehensive enough to have a serious effect, rather than a token effect, has been up for a vote in congress in the last quarter-century.

The possibility may come up again in a decade or so. I'll revive the thread when that happens and we can chew on the details a bit.

Legislative statements to "rein in" the Federal government are pure grand-standing. I would wager that only a handful of the people who voted for them are true libertarians, and the rest averted their eyes and heard nothing over the last few years while the executive branch was spying on the people, ignoring laws it didn't like, and giving itself the power to arrest and disappear American citizens whenever the whim struck--note that the memos rationalizing these powers were published today.

I'll believe there is a secessionist movement when some number of the right-wing blowhards appearing on the news programs every night actually put their money and their livelihoods on the line to organize so much as a street protest against the Federal tyranny. While a few working class conservatives are willing to at least pick up a sign, I'm thinking there isn't one in a hundred of the the blowhard elite who has the courage to take even that much of a risk.

The last time hard-core, right wing extremist movements tried to break up the country, in the 1850s, it did not end well. The moderates, liberals, and sane conservatives (examples of each: Lincoln, Frank Blair, and Ulysses S. Grant) got together and stomped them down, dirty, and hard. They can do it again if they have to.

[Sareth]

Except there not only is a prospect, there is actual legislation already in the works. House Resolution 45, "Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009" is currently in committee in the U.S. House of Representatives. It is the most sweeping gun control legislation the nation has ever seen. Less sweeping, but still issues involving gun control legislation are H.R. 197, H.R. 257,and H.R. 442.

Additionally, of the states who have sent or are considering sending Cease and Desist orders to Congress, only two specifically cite Fire Arms legislation as a cause for this. Other issues listed include: Unfunded mandates imposed on the various states in the form of welfare, medicare, medicaid, and homeland security regulations; Requirements that States create new drivers identification cards which include tracking devices; laws and agencies that violate protections against unlawful search and seizure (particularly the Patriot Act); legislation inhibiting the free exercise of speech and religion; and abortion (Missouri mentioned that one, if I remember correctly.)

So it's not just about gun control. It's a LOT of things.

I've seen posturing before, but never to this extent. It's possible I've missed some things, being that I was out of the country several times. But this is definitely more than I ever thought I'd see.

I should mention that the people I have spoken to about this within Idaho are 90% in favor of Idaho making good on the implied threat, and nullifying any laws coming out of D.C. that exceed the Constitution. Now, Idaho is pretty... independent minded. And very Republican. But states that have also gotten onto this bandwagon include California and Washington, very democratic/liberal states. So it's not Republican spear rattling. Or at least, not JUST Republican spear rattling.

I haven't looked at all the states yet (not even half) but here's the ones I've found so far.

Alaska, Arizona, California, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Washington.

Some of those (New Hampshire and Georgia, especially) clearly reserve the right to not only declare any legislation, both under consideration and already passed, null and void. What's more, they also reserve the right to call for a constitutional convention and actually secede. Your final paragraph implies you actually think that "stomping them down" is a good idea, but allow me to remind you that in 1860-1865, stomping them down cost 600,000 dead and millions crippled at a time we only had 30M people to start with. (Meaning 2% of the nation was killed.) In today's terms that'd be the equivalent of 6 MILLION dead. I'd much prefer Congress got it's head out of its ass to even one casualty, thanks.

(NOTE: The forum won't allow more than five URLs per post. As a result, I will link the respective bills in follow on posts, five per posts, so people can read them for themselves rather than have to believe me.)

[Sareth]

Alaska: http://www.legis.state.ak.us/basis/get_ ... session=26
Arizona: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp ... r2024p.htm
California: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/93-94/bil ... _chaptered
Georgia: http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/search/sr327.htm
Idaho: http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legisl ... HJM003.pdf

[Sareth]

Indiana: http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/200 ... C0037.html
Kansas: http://www.kslegislature.org/bills/2010/2009_1609.pdf
Michigan: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents ... R-0004.htm
Missouri: http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bi ... R0294C.HTM
Montana: http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm

[Sareth]

New Hampshire: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legisla ... R0006.html
Oklahoma: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2009% ... 5Fhflr.rtf
Washington: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdo ... eignty.pdf

[Graybeard]

It's interesting, in connection with these "orders," that some Russian "politician" -- former KGB guy -- predicted that the United States would "dissolve" within a very few years. Link here, among others.

[Boss Out of Town]

It's interesting, in connection with these "orders," that some Russian "politician" -- former KGB guy -- predicted that the United States would "dissolve" within a very few years. Link here, among others.

I've read about him. Completely clueless as how the internal social dynamics of the United States work. Keeps mistaking our loud noises for serious intent. Since he grew up under the Soviet propaganda umbrella, that is to be expected. The totalitarian regimes that took over Japan and much of Europe in the 1920s and 1930s all postulated that Western Liberalism was a failed experiment and all democracies were decadent, weak, and corrupt. The Soviets were the last major proponents of that notion.

Dude is correct, however, that we've given the Chinese an economic gun that they can point at our head anytime they care to.

It is interesting that he has the United States breaking up along the same lines European pundits were predicting back in the 1850s.