Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

[Drannin]

Up here, we do hear stories of Americans planning to flock to Canada when some issue hits the fan, but nothing really ever comes of it. Back in 2004, when W got elected again, it came up, with stories of numerous people planning to immigrate. Never really happened, at least as far as I know. Still, there might be one or two folks here and there who came up north... and are thinking of heading back to the US now.

On the subject of conscription, there's an interesting story. Apparently, an American soldier (or to-be-conscriptee, I forget which) heard that he was going to be sent to Iraq and immediately ran to Canada and tried to apply for refugee status. The refugee board of Canada wasn't buying it, and told him he had to head home to face the music.

[Sareth]

Jeremy Hinzman

He wasn't turned away, he's still in Canada where they are still trying to figure out what to do with him. The chief problem is that, unlike the people who fled the draft during 'Nam, Hinzman had already joined the military of his own free will and done a combat tour in Afghanistan. Thus, in his case, he wasn't fleeing servitude that he'd had no choice about (the Draft) but was attempting to get out of obligations he had voluntarily accepted, and simply did not want to face the consequences of.

His case should be decided by the Canadian Court system within the next month or so.

[Boss Out of Town]

Jeremy Hinzman

He wasn't turned away, he's still in Canada where they are still trying to figure out what to do with him. The chief problem is that, unlike the people who fled the draft during 'Nam, Hinzman had already joined the military of his own free will and done a combat tour in Afghanistan. Thus, in his case, he wasn't fleeing servitude that he'd had no choice about (the Draft) but was attempting to get out of obligations he had voluntarily accepted, and simply did not want to face the consequences of.

His case should be decided by the Canadian Court system within the next month or so.

That's pretty sad. The Iraq debacle has virtually broken an army that took twenty years to rebuild its morale and reputation after Vietnam. Now, its being bled white of experienced people and has a sky-rocketing suicide rate. Obama's election is going to help quite a bit. Regardless of how his current Iraq policy turns out, at least the army has some hope of getting out of there and its veterans some hope of surviving to retirement with their brains and limbs intact.

There's a reason he got cheered at every military camp he visited last year, beyond that stunning three-point shot of his.

[Boss Out of Town]

Meanwhile, we have another example of a congressman putting in a bill just to make a statement to his constituents . . .

Birther bill hits Congress

Rep. Bill Posey, a freshman Republican from Florida, introduced a bill yesterday mirroring proposed state legislation in Missouri and elsewhere that stems from fringe doubts about Obama's eligibility for office.

The full bill text isn't yet available, and Posey's spokesman didn't immediately respond to a request for comment, but here's a summary:
H.R. 1503. A bill to amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require the principal campaign committee of a candidate for election to the office of President to include with the committee's statement of organization a copy of the candidate's birth certificate, together with such other documentation as may be necessary to establish that the candidate meets the qualifications for eligibility to the Office of President under the Constitution; to the Committee on House Administration.

For those not up on political jargon, "Birthers" are the right-wingers who continue to insist that Barack Obama was not born an American. The bill's a waste of time, of course, since verifying eligibility of national candidates has been a standard part of the vetting process for 220 years. Most recent candidate to almost fall afoul of it? Dick Cheney. George W. Bush put him in charge of vetting vice presidential candidates back in 2000. Cheney discovered that the president and vice president have to be from different states. He quickly bought a house in Wyoming--after living in Texas for decades--and then recommended himself to GW as his best possible VP choice.

Note that it was only a few years ago that conservatives wanted to amend the constitution so you did not have to be a native born American to run for president. After Arnold Schwarznegger proved to not be as conservative as they thought, the subject disappeared from our discourse.

[Sareth]

Jeremy Hinzman

He wasn't turned away, he's still in Canada where they are still trying to figure out what to do with him. The chief problem is that, unlike the people who fled the draft during 'Nam, Hinzman had already joined the military of his own free will and done a combat tour in Afghanistan. Thus, in his case, he wasn't fleeing servitude that he'd had no choice about (the Draft) but was attempting to get out of obligations he had voluntarily accepted, and simply did not want to face the consequences of.

His case should be decided by the Canadian Court system within the next month or so.

That's pretty sad. The Iraq debacle has virtually broken an army that took twenty years to rebuild its morale and reputation after Vietnam. Now, its being bled white of experienced people and has a sky-rocketing suicide rate. Obama's election is going to help quite a bit. Regardless of how his current Iraq policy turns out, at least the army has some hope of getting out of there and its veterans some hope of surviving to retirement with their brains and limbs intact.

There's a reason he got cheered at every military camp he visited last year, beyond that stunning three-point shot of his.

Uh... What military are you talking about? I spent ten years in, only getting out after developing severe health issues that rendered me unfit for duty, and I still work as a military contractor, and the VAST majority of soldiers I worked along side of, and still work along side of, view withdrawl from Iraq as nothing less than moral cowardice on the part of the U.S. President Obama is... not well liked in the military. Thank GOD we have a military that recognizes that there is a REASON it's not allowed to act on political beliefs...

[Boss Out of Town]

Uh... What military are you talking about? I spent ten years in, only getting out after developing severe health issues that rendered me unfit for duty, and I still work as a military contractor, and the VAST majority of soldiers I worked along side of, and still work along side of, view withdraw from Iraq as nothing less than moral cowardice on the part of the U.S. President Obama is... not well liked in the military. Thank GOD we have a military that recognizes that there is a REASON it's not allowed to act on political beliefs...

Sounds like you converse with a certain faction of people in the military, and my sources converse with others.

Either way, good luck to you dealing with your health issues. We're doing what we can to get the VA and the economy back in shape so you can find less hazardous work.

With a little luck, we can put a few of Cheney's co-conspirators in prison so no one tries to con us into a bogus war in the near future.

[Graybeard]

I've found this exchange very interesting.

My own dealings with today's military are considerably more limited than they were ten years ago, and they're almost entirely with people who are O-5 and up. They are not (now) commanding people who are getting shot at or blown up, at least not in a direct-report kind of sense; rather, they are doing desk jobs that (nominally) support the "warfighters" with new technology, etc. That's a notoriously poor sample space from which to understand the mood of the grunts with boots on the ground. With this caveat, I don't detect any of the things that either of you guys (Boss and Sareth) are describing, rather a certain shrugging of shoulders -- "new boss, same job, let's get on with it." They're just being "professionals" and doing what professionals do.

That said, I also have dealt, and continue to deal, with civilians who support various intelligence-gathering and analysis activities involving Iraq, Afghanistan, and other places. Almost to the man (or woman), they're delighted to be out from under an administration that either didn't take what they were doing seriously, or worse, warped what they were saying to fit a political prejudice. That doesn't necessarily mean they're happy with the new administration, not at all. But at least there's been a breach in the alarmingly Vietnam-like cynicism about the way facts about Afghanistan and Iraq were being tailored to fit political opinions rather than the other way around.

To tie this back to the original subject, it looks to me as if we are, at the minimum, transitioning into a time when the Powers That Be are stepping back and taking a hard look at the way things actually are, not the way they want them to be. That was getting going even before the elections, and from a bipartisan, or nonpartisan, perspective. I hope it will continue. In that light, it's unfortunate that the "don't bother us with questions, we already know all the answers" position is being staked out so vigorously by the people who are promoting these cease-and-desist "orders." This simply is not the time for that; constructive engagement finally has a chance again, so why blow that chance pre-emptively?

Agreed about health issues, S (and others in the same boat). Let's get some things fixed.

[Labrat]

Right now I'm ok with Obama (though I really wish the man would learn to speak without a teleprompter) but I have some serious questions in regard to the mooks he brought in to run things. Where the hell did he find some of these people? At least Cheney looked cool, the Penguin-esque 'shoot you in the face and make you apologize' evil overlord vibe and all, as he was fucking the nation up the ass for eight straight years. You can kindof applaud the guy even as you fantasize about horrible, horrible things you would like to do to him.

But in the new administration they put their only cool (and vaguely competent) guy up top where he can spend all his time looking good. It makes me want to cry.

[Boss Out of Town]

Right now I'm ok with Obama (though I really wish the man would learn to speak without a teleprompter).

Could you enlighten me a bit about this weird teleprompter meme people keep dropping? We now have the most intelligent, articulate human being in the presidency that I have witnessed in my lifetime, and I keep hearing in various forums vague negative references to Obama needing a teleprompter. I've seen him at work in discussions and town meetings, and he makes every other politician out there sound like they picked up English as a second language after brain surgery.

Is this another one of Rove's underground whispering campaigns?

I will point out that there is no one who works on television professionally who does not use a teleprompter. It is a basic tool that keeps the speech or dialogue flowing smoothly and prevents micro-glitchs and moments of dead air, even if you've got the script memorized word for word.

Lincoln read the Gettysburg address from a sheet of note paper. Winston Churchill memorized his speeches but kept a hard copy in front of him, just like every other politician of his day. When the British PM does his question sessions with parliment, he has a ring-binder of notes on his podium the size of an unabridged dictionary.

When radio came along, everyone worked from scripts, including FDR, Bob Hope, and Edward R. Murrow. Television made that technique look somewhat awkward, so the teleprompter was invented. JFK, Walter Cronkite, and Johnny Carson all used both notes and teleprompters and would have thought anyone who didn't a show-off and a fool.

The teleprompter is only a crutch if you are so dysfunctional a speaker that you can't ad-lib an English sentence without garbling it, or if you are so slow-witted that you need it as a substitute for your own thoughts and memories. Of course, we put up with that for eight years with Bush, so it lowered expectations. One recurring reaction I've heard from people who've conversed with Obama is how pleasantly surprised they were to be talking with an American leader who knows his issues and can discuss any of them honestly and competently.

Can anyone provide some evidence to the contrary?

[Sareth]

It's refering to two seperate gaffs.

The first, the teleprompter was supposed to run his speech for him to read off, and instead it gave him that of the Irish Prime Minister. He didn't catch it until AFTER he had thanked himself for his kind words...

The second was last night, where, on Jay Leno, he dropped a very unfortunate bomb about the Special Olympics.

*shrug*

Articulate and intelligent are not necessarily the same thing. I'm not saying he's not a smart man. Idiots don't end up in the top position of the country (Bush was many things, but he wasn't stupid. Neither was Clinton.) But when you look at the people he's been appointing, you do have to wonder just what he's thinking.