Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

Because it only took Viking-Sensei three years (and the approaching end of Errant Story) to come up with a better name for "General Discussions"
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Boss Out of Town
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Sareth's original point is gathering plausibility . . .
Twelve Carry Guns -- Including Assault Rifle -- Outside Obama Event

About 12 people were carrying guns, including at least one semi-automatic assault rifle, outside a building where President Obama was speaking today.

No one was arrested outside the VFW National Convention in Phoenix, according to the Associated Press, where hundreds of people demonstrated both for and against health care reform. There are no reports that the 12 were part of an organized group.

The man spotted carrying the assault rifle and a pistol, who gave his name only as "Chris", was asked why he was armed. "Because I can do it," he said. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms." You can watch the video from ArizonaCentral.com (go to about 1:30). He's being interviewed by a man who's also wearing a handgun.

Two police officers kept close by. Carrying guns, including the AR-15 assault rifle, is legal under Arizona law.

"If we need to intervene, we will intervene at that time," said Detective J. Oliver.

CNN's Ed Henry reported seeing a second man with an assault rifle, but that has not been confirmed.

These reports come less than a week after two people brought guns to a presidential event in Portsmouth, N.H. At Obama's town hall there, one man was arrested for having a gun hidden in his car after the Secret Service found him at Portsmouth High School hours before Obama arrived carrying a pocketknife. He didn't have a license for a concealed weapon.

Another man in Portsmouth was spotted carrying a gun in a leg holster outside the school. The unconcealed weapon was legal under New Hampshire law and he was not arrested. Later, when asked why he brought the gun, he replied, "That's not even a relevant question. The question is, why don't people bear arms these days?"

And that's not all. A man brought a gun to a town hall with Rep. Steve Cohen (D-TN) last week, without incident. At an event with Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), someone dropped a gun, but he had a permit and no police report was taken. And two weeks ago, a New Mexico man tweeted that reform opponents should bring guns to town halls and "badly hurt" SEIU reps
History celebrates the battlefields whereon we meet our death, but scorns to speak of the plowed fields whereby we thrive; it knows the names of kings’ bastards but cannot tell us the origin of wheat. This is the way of human folly. --- Henry Fabre
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Wow. I never thought I'd see this thread resurface.

I lived in Arizona for a year in the latter '90s. There was significant debate going on at the time regarding carrying. Unlike the rest of the country, the debate was not "does the state have the right to ban carrying certain kinds," the debate was "does the state have the right to even issue licenses." To show you the Arizona Attitude at the time (It may have changed in the past 13 years) gun owners were actually writing their local sheriff stating, "My name is [insert name here]. I live at [insert street address here]. I work at [insert company name here]. I am carrying a [insert gun type here] concealed. I do not have a permit. If you wish to arrest me, I will offer no resistance and will come quietly. I am doing this because the Arizona State Constititon states, 'The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired.' By barring me from bearing arms in concealment, the state is in violation of this constitutionally enshrined right. I look forward to challenging it in court."

At the time, there wasn't a sheriff in Arizona who would touch these people...

I have no idea what has happened since, but I enjoyed carrying my Ruger P-95 around all the time...
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Sareth wrote:Wow. I never thought I'd see this thread resurface.

I lived in Arizona for a year in the latter '90s. There was significant debate going on at the time regarding carrying. Unlike the rest of the country, the debate was not "does the state have the right to ban carrying certain kinds," the debate was "does the state have the right to even issue licenses." To show you the Arizona Attitude at the time (It may have changed in the past 13 years) gun owners were actually writing their local sheriff stating, "My name is [insert name here]. I live at [insert street address here]. I work at [insert company name here]. I am carrying a [insert gun type here] concealed. I do not have a permit. If you wish to arrest me, I will offer no resistance and will come quietly. I am doing this because the Arizona State Constititon states, 'The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired.' By barring me from bearing arms in concealment, the state is in violation of this constitutionally enshrined right. I look forward to challenging it in court."
Even weirder is Chris Mathews trying to get a Georgia congressman to make any comment about the situation other than . . . "they have a right to carry their weapons anywhere," even at a political meeting where tempers flare and the chief speaker is a guy who literally gets hundreds of death threats a week and requires an entire federal agency to protect him from loons with guns and grievances. Rep Gingrey's only elaboration was that he has held town hall meetings of his own and everyone cheers for him, so he isn't worried.

Mathews takes the traditional civilized American viewpoint: no one needs to carry a gun in public situations like this, so anyone who does is assumed to be thinking he might have to use the weapon. Which is why every town in America, until the rise of Movement Conservatism, had strict rules about carrying guns in public, either legal or customary. I was brought up in a rural county where every household had rifles and shotguns. Even in the middle of deer hunting season, you didn't wander around downtown with an uncovered gun. You scared people, they assumed you were drunk, nuts, or up to no good, and the cops would deal with you.
History celebrates the battlefields whereon we meet our death, but scorns to speak of the plowed fields whereby we thrive; it knows the names of kings’ bastards but cannot tell us the origin of wheat. This is the way of human folly. --- Henry Fabre
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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And it just gets stranger and stranger . . .
New Poll Finds Majority Of Republicans Either Believes Or Isn’t Sure About “Death Panel” Claim
Wow. A forthcoming poll by the nonpartisan Research 2000 for DailyKos finds that a majority of Republicans either believes, or isn’t sure about, the claim that the Dem health care proposal will create “death panels” to determine whether the sick or injured get health care depending on their “productivity in society.”

Do you think the health care reform plan being considered by President Obama and Congress creates “death panels” which have the authority to subjectively determine whether or not a gravely ill or injured person should receive health care based on their “level of productivity in society”?

Here are the numbers on how Republicans answered that question:

Yes: 26
No: 43
Not sure: 31

So a startling majority of 57% of Republicans either believes or is uncertain about the veracity of the “death panel” claim, versus only 43% of GOPers who don’t believe it.

The key here is that the question was specifically worded to mirror Palin’s assertion that Obama’s death panel will evaluate a person’s right to medical care based on whether they’re productive in society. More than a quarter of Republicans believe this, and nearly a third are not sure.
On a forum at Atlantic Monthly, we have been talking about polls that show how this belief is concentrated among white conservatives from states of the former Confederacy. The gap in beliefs between right-wingers from, say Mississippi and Georgia, versus the right-wing hard cases of Idaho and Utah is just astonishing. Something like half the white population of the South is still part of this closed, resentful cultural grouping left over from the Jim Crow era, where they believe Yankees and n******s are evil and out to get them and believe any smear they hear about them. They make the anti-establishment militia people in Idaho look the height of rationality.
History celebrates the battlefields whereon we meet our death, but scorns to speak of the plowed fields whereby we thrive; it knows the names of kings’ bastards but cannot tell us the origin of wheat. This is the way of human folly. --- Henry Fabre
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Yeesh. Normally I try to be fairly intelligent and discuss things with facts and figures. But in the wake of that post all I can say is...

Some people are farkin idiots. Makes me glad I'm in Idaho and not Georgia...
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Textbooks that indoctrinate students in the philosophy of the ruling poltical faction are standard features of totalitarian regimes, but note that the Houston Chronicle is treating the story quite lightly.
History's first draft: Newt Gingrich but no liberals
Textbooks being written for Texas students appear to lean to the right


AUSTIN — Texas high school students would learn about such significant individuals and milestones of conservative politics as Newt Gingrich and the rise of the Moral Majority — but nothing about liberals — under the first draft of new standards for public school history textbooks.

And the side that got left out is very unhappy.

As it stands, students would get “one-sided, right wing ideology,” said Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer, D-San Antonio, chairman of the House Mexican American Caucus.

“We ought to be focusing on historical significance and historical figures. It's important that whatever course they take, that it portray a complete view of our history and not a jaded view to suit one's partisan agenda or one's partisan philosophy,” he said.

The State Board of Education has appointed “review committees” made up largely of active and retired school teachers to draft new social studies curriculum standards as well as six “expert reviewers” to help shape the final document.

The standards, which the board will decide next spring, will influence new history, civics and geography textbooks.

The first draft for proposed standards in United States History Studies Since Reconstruction says students should be expected “to identify significant conservative advocacy organizations and individuals, such as Newt Gingrich, Phyllis Schlafly and the Moral Majority.”
As the Center for American Progress blog notes . . .
Earlier this year, a panel of right-wing “experts” produced a report urging the committee to remove biographies of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Stephen F. Austin, César Chávez, and instead add history about the “motivational role the Bible and the Christian faith played in the settling of the original colonies.”
History celebrates the battlefields whereon we meet our death, but scorns to speak of the plowed fields whereby we thrive; it knows the names of kings’ bastards but cannot tell us the origin of wheat. This is the way of human folly. --- Henry Fabre
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Boss Out of Town wrote: As the Center for American Progress blog notes . . .
Earlier this year, a panel of right-wing “experts” produced a report urging the committee to remove biographies of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Stephen F. Austin, César Chávez, and instead add history about the “motivational role the Bible and the Christian faith played in the settling of the original colonies.”
Got a reference on this, Boss? Particularly one that points to the original "report," and even better, to some of the text that these guys want removed?

Gross exaggerations to make a point are by no means the sole province of the Ridiculous Right; the Loony Left does it too, and there are even Crazy Centrists who'd rather exaggerate than engage in reasoned discussion. Reading the primary sources is the antidote to that, and I'd be very interested to know what the primary sources behind this assertion actually say.
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Us Loco Libertarians are prone to it as well...

Primary sources would be good, yes.
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Graybeard wrote:
Boss Out of Town wrote: As the Center for American Progress blog notes . . .
Earlier this year, a panel of right-wing “experts” produced a report urging the committee to remove biographies of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Stephen F. Austin, César Chávez, and instead add history about the “motivational role the Bible and the Christian faith played in the settling of the original colonies.”
Got a reference on this, Boss? Particularly one that points to the original "report," and even better, to some of the text that these guys want removed?

Gross exaggerations to make a point are by no means the sole province of the Ridiculous Right; the Loony Left does it too, and there are even Crazy Centrists who'd rather exaggerate than engage in reasoned discussion. Reading the primary sources is the antidote to that, and I'd be very interested to know what the primary sources behind this assertion actually say.
To be sure, to be sure. the first quote is from the Houston Chronicle . . .

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 81189.html . . .

and the original report was quoted in the Dallas Morning News . . .

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... faaf7.html . . .

as well as the AP and Newsday . . .

http://www.newsday.com/panel-suggests-t ... -1.1384597

I never base a message on gossip if I can avoid it and never without identifying it as such.

The comment about Thurgood Marshall and Anne Hutchison being too unimportant to mention in history books is reflective of the way extreme conservatives acted when they tried to put a statue of Susan B. Anthony in the capitol building in Washington. It was pretty funny, really. The cover excuse was that the statue was too big, but if you followed the discussion, their dismissive attitude shown through it all. They may have had to come to terms with the feminist revolution, but, still, she was just another liberal troublemaker and why would anyone want to put up a statue to that sort of trashy character?
History celebrates the battlefields whereon we meet our death, but scorns to speak of the plowed fields whereby we thrive; it knows the names of kings’ bastards but cannot tell us the origin of wheat. This is the way of human folly. --- Henry Fabre
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Re: Idaho issues Cease and Desist order... against Congress

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Thanks for the references, and lest I be mistaken, I wasn't accusing you of repeating rumor, innuendo and hearsay on this. I do wonder, however, whether the quotes in those articles accurately reflect the intent of the original document. If they do, it's surely outrageous, but I learned long ago that the media engage in selective quoting to bolster their own views of things...

References for the original report, if it's on-line, would be much appreciated, as would any follow-up information on what the thing looked like after the first draft and subsequent editing.
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