2008 US Presidential Election

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zanntos
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by zanntos »

Don't really care myself, i think we're pretty much hosed reguardless. My only personal preference i snot Hillary as i dislike her bandstanding on any "tragedy" that they try to pin on video games. The games have a rating system in place, so blame the consumers for not being literate enough to understand M = bad stuff.

And as i don't see ANY of the canidates stopping our bad habit of playing 3rd-world peace keeper at some level i don't see the Iraq situation being addressed, since that's a no-win at this point, stay and "fix" Iraq at the cost of our economy and nation debt, or pull out and let an unstable region duke it out while the world blames us for their instability. Also as our Economy doesn't strike me as the most stable thing in the universe right now, it's paying for mistakes accumulated from both previous presidents. (yes i blame Clinton too, deal :p )

So whoever the next president is is going to need to pull off a small miracle to keep the idiot thing from collapsing, At least in my area i think the "housing boom" screwed us completely, triple house cost due to funny-money interest rates and now all the defaulting house loans bitting the creditors in the butt. Welcome to making the dollar worthless, causing "valued" resources like oil price spike simply due to the dollar not being worth as much.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by Viking-Sensei »

My fear is still that, while he's intelligent, charismatic, and 'a fresh face'... he's perhaps a bit too fresh a face for me to trust yet. If he had a longer service period in congress, or perhaps went as soneone's VP for a spin in office, I'd be fine with him. I have the same problem/fear with Giuliani... sure, he was a good mayor, but that doesn't make him a governor, senator, congressman, anything that would qualify him for that level of service. He's top of the minor leagues, but that doesn't make him an all-star the second he gets to the major leagues.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by Graybeard »

Actually, I am rather more optimistic about this presidential campaign than the previous two. Candidates on both sides -- with one notable exception in each party -- seem to understand that change is needed and that government must function pragmatically rather than in a doctrinaire way. Whatever the personal excesses of the successful candidate (and they all have them), he/she will see them softened in practice by the need to work with the rest of the world as it really is, rather than riding in with some nutty preconceived notions and ignoring or offending the part of the world that doesn't fit them. This is a good thing; even the more successful presidents usually take some time in office before they become pragmatic.

I'll almost certainly vote Democratic, although I can see one or two possible pairings that would force me to vote Republican to keep an idiot out of the White House. It's very unlikely as the Dem who scares me is not getting much traction, although he's nominally still in the race. Don't know how I'll lean in the primary, probably Hillary although it's unlikely to matter, as our state's primary is quite late. Would be very happy to see Bill Richardson as VP; he's been quite a good governor (not all of my fellow New Mexicans agree, but he's wildly popular) and gets this pragmatism thing.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by Boss Out of Town »

Cassanne wrote:So, now that hings have gotten a bit more interesting, who do you americans think/hope/fear will be your next president?

Far away in Europe I'm hoping for Giuliani (all the other republicans scare me) vs Obama. And for Obama to win...
Giuliani is the walking dead. He got only a few percent of the votes in the states that have polled so far and he is going to be out of money and options after he loses big in Florida. The Republican survivors are going to be McCain, Huckabee, and Romney. All of them would be a disaster as president, for various reasons, so hopefully the Democrats will nominate someone who won't screw up the race.

Looking back, Rudy is probably the the vilest human being to be a serious presidential contender since the team of George "Segregation Forever" Wallace teamed up with Curtis "Firebomber" LeMay back in the 60s. Obnoxious, immoral, petty, a habitual liar--and he has no personal charm to cover up his faults. His only asset in the campaign over the past year has been his wide support among the national press corps. Everywhere he campaigns, he creeps people out.

Obama vs Clinton vs Edwards for the Democratic nomination is going to be fun and informative if Obama and Clinton can keep up the truce they've made over pissy comments by them and their supporters. The problem is that, if even one of their staff or supporters decides today is the day to say something stupidly offensive in public, the press will jump all over it. Anything to make good copy and avoid having to discuss dull, boring stuff like foreign policy, domestic policy, the Mortgage Bubble, Global Warming, the wars, etc. . . .

That last sentence is not hyperbole. It is exactly what the boys and girls in the press room say whenever someone asks them about their jobs. My wife's junior high special ed class is more grown up than that crowd.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by Boss Out of Town »

Graybeard wrote:Actually, I am rather more optimistic about this presidential campaign than the previous two. Candidates on both sides -- with one notable exception in each party -- seem to understand that change is needed and that government must function pragmatically rather than in a doctrinaire way. Whatever the personal excesses of the successful candidate (and they all have them), he/she will see them softened in practice by the need to work with the rest of the world as it really is, rather than riding in with some nutty preconceived notions and ignoring or offending the part of the world that doesn't fit them. This is a good thing; even the more successful presidents usually take some time in office before they become pragmatic.

I'll almost certainly vote Democratic, although I can see one or two possible pairings that would force me to vote Republican to keep an idiot out of the White House. It's very unlikely as the Dem who scares me is not getting much traction, although he's nominally still in the race. Don't know how I'll lean in the primary, probably Hillary although it's unlikely to matter, as our state's primary is quite late. Would be very happy to see Bill Richardson as VP; he's been quite a good governor (not all of my fellow New Mexicans agree, but he's wildly popular) and gets this pragmatism thing.
The Democrats were blessed, this year, with a good selection of candidates who have the potential to be good presidents. Richardson is one of them and would make an excellent vice presidential choice. Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Dodd, and Biden all had the mix of brains, strength, and humility to get the job done. Biden and Clinton have issues with ties to corporate interests, Obama may not be a tough enough campaigner, and Edwards and Dodd were non-starters with the media. As actual, vocal progressives, they were considered unworthy as candidates by the main-stream media. Edwards is only percent or two behind Clinton and Obama in votes and delegates, but the networks will continue to pretend that he doesn't exist until he actually wins a primary, which is unlikely.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

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Boss Out of Town wrote:I'll almost certainly vote Democratic, although I can see one or two possible pairings that would force me to vote Republican to keep an idiot out of the White House. It's very unlikely as the Dem who scares me is not getting much traction, although he's nominally still in the race. Don't know how I'll lean in the primary, probably Hillary although it's unlikely to matter, as our state's primary is quite late. Would be very happy to see Bill Richardson as VP; he's been quite a good governor (not all of my fellow New Mexicans agree, but he's wildly popular) and gets this pragmatism thing.
The Democrats were blessed, this year, with a good selection of candidates who have the potential to be good presidents. Richardson is one of them and would make an excellent vice presidential choice. Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Dodd, and Biden all had the mix of brains, strength, and humility to get the job done. Biden and Clinton have issues with ties to corporate interests, Obama may not be a tough enough campaigner, and Edwards and Dodd were non-starters with the media. As actual, vocal progressives, they were considered unworthy as candidates by the main-stream media. Edwards is only percent or two behind Clinton and Obama in votes and delegates, but the networks will continue to pretend that he doesn't exist until he actually wins a primary, which is unlikely.[/quote]

At least as far as the primarys go, I'm pleasantly surprised that this seems to be a year of actually voting FOR a candidate you support instead of voting AGAINST someone you don't. I'm not sure how the presidential election will go, but I suspect that for the first time in years, it'll be the same way.

On an interresting side note, a few things about electoral reform I'd like/love to see:

A guy is pushing to add a C - None of the Above category to all major elections. That way we don't have a repeat of 2004 and the great "It's not that I like ________, because I don't, it's that I don't trust _______ to be any better" that I suspect was highly common. In his plan, if neither of the candidates that wind up being the 'final contenders' pass the public's muster, the public has the power to choose to vote for neither instead of having to "vote against" or throw away their vote by casting ballot for... oh, I dunno... Ralph Nader. In a situation where neither party fields a suitable candidate and the public says an unequivacable "DO NOT WANT!" to both of them, we'd go into an emergency overtime election round, with parties having a month or so to either revise and refield the candidate (a potentially dangerous move, since they obviously didn't cut it the first round) or come up with a new candidate, perhaps a dark-horse or front-runner who just didn't cut it before.

This gives the populace a far bigger say in who is actually being elected, providing an extra layer of protection against special interrest groups running rough-shot over the entire electoral process to push a specific candidate or adgenda. This would also give vox pops to the real issue of incumbants - a the chance of a party withdrawing it's own already-sitting president is currently slim-to-none, but if the current administration is defeated by a "None of the Above" vote, the party of power is going to have to seriously look at what's going on.

In addition, I'd also love to see the major political parties being forced to field not one but two presidental candidates... even with a sitting president looking for re-election. Imagine how different 2004 would have been if Republicans had been given the choice of Bush or... say... McCain? Not having to loose the office while still managing to loose the unpopular sitting official? It would be maddness, madness I say!

On a final note, I'd also like to see all electoral college votes be made representative. As it stands right now, in highly polarized states, the votes of the underparty don't apparently count. If my home state here is decidedly Dems, me voting Democrat isn't going to matter because the say 35% who don't vote along the majority lines don't count anything. I'd like to see it so that electoral votes are split up by popular vote - I believe this is now done in Colorado, but I'd like to see it done across the map. I think it would do wonders for voter turn-out, as well as make the politicians have to curry favor in each state instead of focusing on a select few with incredibly high electoral votes.
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Re: 2008 US Presidential Election

Post by Imp-Chan »

If someone actually gave me the option of voting "DO NOT WANT," by CANDIDATE instead of by PARTY, and at the same time essentially eliminated the electoral college, then I might just resume showing up at the polls.

Of course, first I'd have to be assured that a) my vote would ever be counted, b) no one would be fudging the counting results for me, and c) the media wouldn't be "helpfully" telling the world what they THINK the votes were before they're even all cast and thus invalidating the entire electoral process. In fact, I'd prefer it if the media just plain weren't covering election day until after it's over. Instead, they could be broadcasting *gasp* actual coverage of the issues, with experts to speak instead of lobbyists or ringmasters like O'Reilly or Stewart or basically anyone else on television, and a reminder to vote at all.

...

Er, it might be awhile before I can believe our election process is sufficiently "real" to be worth my participation, afterall.

-_-'
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