Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Alberich » May 1st, 2012, 12:55 pm

One thing I don't know - what sort of names shall we give the Gorielians? (I may want to create an NPC or two when we get there, and want the NPC's to be able to talk about the "political" situation there without us having to struggle for names.) Veracia and Farrel do pretty well with mostly-English names, and Tsuiraku with mostly-Japanese, but the Gorelians might fit better with something more exotic (from the viewpoint of the other two). My suggestion: mostly-Russian.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Graybeard » May 1st, 2012, 1:40 pm

Alberich wrote:One thing I don't know - what sort of names shall we give the Gorielians? (I may want to create an NPC or two when we get there, and want the NPC's to be able to talk about the "political" situation there without us having to struggle for names.) Veracia and Farrel do pretty well with mostly-English names, and Tsuiraku with mostly-Japanese, but the Gorelians might fit better with something more exotic (from the viewpoint of the other two). My suggestion: mostly-Russian.

That's both a very good question and an excellent answer. It's also consistent with some other things we've seen, for example, my main character in the Rinkaiel threads (Layla) having a good friend from Tsuiraku with the very un-Tsuirakuan name "Galina" and ancestry somewhere in the Confederacy. It would fit for that "somewhere" to be Goriel or vicinity. Russian/Slavic names would work just fine, and the use of patronymics (e.g. the middle name of Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev), possibly to the exclusion of "family" names (as it's done in Iceland), would be consistent with the way the place works. Unless there are objections, let's make it so.

Incidentally, it would be no bad thing for there to be another Confederacy city-state out there somewhere where the names sound French. Reasons for this will become clear shortly. There are going to be lots of stories to be told in this place ... even if the main action continues to involve Blaise.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Alberich » May 1st, 2012, 1:44 pm

Works for me! (You've already let slip that we're meeting an NPC named "Therese" and I'm guessing she's the rescuer rather than the rescuee in the side-scenes we've been seeing, and probably not a Gorielian, so the reasons may be glimpsed through a glass darkly even now.) 'course with the "mostly" we can deviate from that whenever we feel like it - as with Argus, Harker, and the Great Hieronymous - and nobody minds. I should like to name the king Arman from the royal clan of Duravsky (inspired by this poem, just the kind of man I'd expect to be on top in a place like this.)
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Drusia » May 1st, 2012, 3:33 pm

Alberich wrote:Works for me!


And me.

Graybeard wrote:Incidentally, it would be no bad thing for there to be another Confederacy city-state out there somewhere where the names sound French. Reasons for this will become clear shortly. There are going to be lots of stories to be told in this place ....


Huh. Makes me wonder if the lover that Drusia founded Snamish with was from there. Desiree is a French name with Latin origin. Beatrice and Benedict are Latin and are usually associated with Italy. A lot of Snamish names seem to have similar influences. **shrugs** Just musing.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Graybeard » May 1st, 2012, 4:13 pm

Drusia wrote:
Graybeard wrote:Incidentally, it would be no bad thing for there to be another Confederacy city-state out there somewhere where the names sound French. Reasons for this will become clear shortly. There are going to be lots of stories to be told in this place ....


Huh. Makes me wonder if the lover that Drusia founded Snamish with was from there. Desiree is a French name with Latin origin. Beatrice and Benedict (my emphasis added -- GB) are Latin and are usually associated with Italy. A lot of Snamish names seem to have similar influences. **shrugs** Just musing.

It's probably equally likely that somebody involved with Snamish was an opera buff. ;) Anyway, Therese's origins will remain murky for a while; just say she's from somewhere up north other than Goriel itself.

I've pre-empted and written some stuff about clan structure into the game thread (the "bracelets"). I think we're on a reasonable path here ... and there's lots more development to be done.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Sareth » May 1st, 2012, 5:33 pm

Drusia wrote:Wow. Um... okay, I'm going to sound like a noob here, but I always thought Second Life was like the Sims meets Facebook. You know, modern. This... well, this makes SL sound very different than what I'd pictured. Once I've finished grading finals, I might just check it out. If I do - want to be my tour guide? ^^


SL is extremely diverse thanks to the built in tools to make user created content. You've got medieval, fantasy, sci-fi, ethnic, educational, national, corporate, post apocalyptic, artistic, xxx... I spend most of my time in a steam punk setting. Drop me a note, we'll talk.

Also, French, Itallian, and Spanish are "Romance Languages" that are descended from Latin. So there's your tie in there.

Anyway, back on topic: I like what I'm seeing here. It's almost like we planted tie ins in advance.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Graybeard » May 2nd, 2012, 11:25 pm

Okay, progress is being made here. One thing that is going to need careful thought is the degree to which inter-clan rivalries impact life in Goriel. The situation is different than in real-world situations I can think of (Afghanistan, pre-1800 Scotland) for a number of reasons, some of them geographical (it isn't that hard to get to Goriel from other points in the Northern Confederacy), others unique to the Poe-verse (specifically, how would magic use -- by men only, of course -- impact relations/clashes among clans? And how about dwarven technology? They're up close to the old dwarven lands). I suggest we not get too wedded to real-world parallels, but rather, try to think of what would make sense here. Some coherency on that is going to be needed once the airship gets to town.

Fuller description of Therese de Refuge-Nouveau (diacriticals won't be used routinely) coming soon. She'll be important.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Drannin » May 3rd, 2012, 1:30 pm

Maybe Goriel has an "I against my brother" viewpoint? As part of a confederacy, some degree of cohesion is necessary, otherwise a rival city-state can take advantage of that division. On the other hand, competing clans probably have generations-old grudges against one another, and don't necessarily like each other. One can assume that there are old hatreds there, lots of bad blood, but kept in check by necessity-- the focus on external politeness, as I believe Alberich said.

So basically, you're walking down the street, and can see numerous other people whom you intrinsically hate due to their clan affiliation, which I assume is readily apparent due to mode of dress, insignia, or some such. You despise them, but can't really insult or act against them, because that would violate Goriel's code of superficial politeness (borrowing from Alberich again). On the other hand, maybe you're wondering if there are other ways you can lash out at these people.

Thinking about it like this, Goriel strikes me as a powderkeg, a very tense place with a few sane individuals trying to channel all that anger and resentment to constructive ends, in order to keep the city from exploding and thus becoming vulnerable. Maybe each clan has favored establishments? Each power bloc?

As for magic and dwarven technology, I can see the leaders of Goriel tightly restricting that sort of thing by common consensus... too destabilizing, otherwise.

Anyway, that's my uninformed viewpoint.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Alberich » May 3rd, 2012, 1:50 pm

What Drannin says makes a lot of sense to me - else Goriel would be lacking for population.

I'd expect not only the central government, but even clan leaders, to be restrictive of magic - that is to say, making sure it's all in hands they control, or can control in emergencies. An unaffiliated wizard would draw more attention, and more dangerous attention, than an unaffiliated pretty girl. Probably it's forbidden by custom to use magic in an ordinary duel or blood feud, though it'll be pulled out in an outright clan war or international war when those happen. (And someone who was desperate enough might get desperate enough to ignore the rule...) I shouldn't think anyone here could repair dwarf tech, so I'd expect any unbroken dwarf artifacts to be very well hidden.

I do like the idea of at least some clans' gods being magical constructs, like Luminosita but much younger and smaller, and I want the leadership to have some access to magic. I think that makes the most sense, if they've been able to keep their independence in this rough and dangerous world.
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Re: Goriel's culture: let's collaborate

Postby Graybeard » May 4th, 2012, 11:56 am

Alberich wrote:I'd expect not only the central government, but even clan leaders, to be restrictive of magic - that is to say, making sure it's all in hands they control, or can control in emergencies. An unaffiliated wizard would draw more attention, and more dangerous attention, than an unaffiliated pretty girl. Probably it's forbidden by custom to use magic in an ordinary duel or blood feud, though it'll be pulled out in an outright clan war or international war when those happen. (And someone who was desperate enough might get desperate enough to ignore the rule...) I shouldn't think anyone here could repair dwarf tech, so I'd expect any unbroken dwarf artifacts to be very well hidden.

Certainly true for "combat" magic. However, these people aren't fools. It has already been established that mining is important to the economy of Goriel, and that's a dangerous business. A miner that didn't exploit all available technology, including thaumato-technology and maybe also dwarven tech, to meet those dangers would be behaving irresponsibly, and furthermore, would be ceding a competitive advantage to other operations that did use those technologies, particularly since magic seems to be "free" once you know how to use it.

I'd think that magical skills required for mining would be well developed among the male populace. What skills are those? Good question. Also, because people get hurt in mines, some degree of magical healing should exist, and most likely not just among the specialists (although the layman's magical healing ability would obviously be limited). Question for discussion: would women be taught healing magic? I can argue either side of that.

The implications of miners who were magically adept underground, working in a society that restricts magic use aboveground, probably need to be thought through. Consider a miner equipped with the magical equivalent of dynamite ... which would certainly be a great thing to use in a mine, with obvious safety advantages over chemical explosives, but would have ... other applications on the surface. We need to think about that.

No point in worrying too much about dwarven technology, though. I think you've captured the attitude toward that 100% correctly.

Alberich wrote:I do like the idea of at least some clans' gods being magical constructs, like Luminosita but much younger and smaller, and I want the leadership to have some access to magic. I think that makes the most sense, if they've been able to keep their independence in this rough and dangerous world.

Marker put down here: the Sisterhood, to which Thérèse belongs, worships "The Five Great Mothers." (Yes, I am aware that that term comes from the trolls, and Thérèse and her sisters very definitely aren't trolls. But it will make sense, from numerous points of view, and more on that later.) Of course, the Sisterhood isn't from Goriel, and no self-respecting male citizen of Goriel would worship such a pantheon, but I could easily see "underground" worship of them among the women. That worship could lead in turn to clandestine magical skills that a very few women have and keep well hidden from the men -- because Exitialis help them if it ever gets discovered.
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