Errant Road- discussion thread

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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Graybeard » March 22nd, 2013, 8:25 am

Actually, once the big battle is done and dies down, Khoo's normal, reasonable behavior would be to go back to Sashi Mu. He's really kind of a fifth wheel right now, apart from supplying some anonymous magical firepower. He also is still a grad student working on his D.Thm.Eng. and wants to get back to that, now that Sashi Mu has re-opened following the Artifex Incident. Lacking anything obvious to keep him there (love interest?...), he'll probably skedaddle shortly.

Two things about me keeping involved. First, any time something is needed from the Eisenfaust, let me know via PM, as I probably won't be following the thread(s) closely once Khoo goes home but would still like to influence the way the Eisenfaust proceeds. Likewise also if the Eisenfaust's arch-enemies, the Gewehr, crop up, as they could -- any indication that the Eisenfaust is weakening might be viewed as a signal to the Gewehr to think about pushing back in some of the places and rackets where they have clashed. I would still like to revive the Rinkaiel thread at some point, and it is obviously Gewehr-centric, so if Gewehr words need to be said, I'd like to say them.

Second, action in the Southern Continent is about to move out of the country, and in the process, get a great deal closer to the BBEG. (If you haven't checked out what's happening in Background Noise, please do.) Because of the chaotic operation of the underground railroad there, it could easily be arranged that Rose, Argus and the merry crew head north toward the BBEG by way of somewhere that the Lorrel group, or one of the subgroups, might also be visiting. This could allow some crossover between groups. I'd love to do something to get the Veracian crowd moving more rapidly again, the more so since the grand finale is now on the horizon, less remotely than it was in Goriel. Can we discuss?
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Alberich » March 22nd, 2013, 8:43 am

Sure. I was only talking about during this big fight, what I think people would do. Because after we finish with Eli and Aleron, I expect that group will be scattering to the four winds anyway. Any or all of my characters there might die for different reasons.

Tim, if he lives, is the only one with a real interest in chasing after Rose, and would count himself very lucky if he met Rose's group so as to be able to join them for the big finito. Jargalan, if he lives, is going out of play for a while (who the hell wants him around anyway? but he might be back as a foil). Udo, if he lives (and the way he keeps getting into fights that are too powerful for him is not encouraging), is more likely to go off with Angrist than anyone else (something I've chatted a little about with Browncoat) for some totally new adventures.
Last edited by Alberich on March 22nd, 2013, 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Jack Rothwell » March 22nd, 2013, 8:58 am

I think Jargalan and Angrist chasing after Eli makes sense. Tamina's priority target would be the man holding the matriarch in place as she hates Aleron more than anyone else.

I think it would be good to add a little tension if Jargalan and Angrist get into (possibly serious) trouble once they track the viper to his nest, it would present an opportunity for Tim to finally stage an intervention.

Tbh Grey, I was planning on figuring out a way to get Tamina back to Rose's group after the conflict was over. The kobold'll definately need a change of pace and, of course, Argus promised to teach her earth magic, which she's developing an affinity for.

I'll make sure to catch up in background noise and get up to date with the Veracian thread, I check it once in a while, but work can be a pain the arse and writing takes up time. I'm looking forward to clambering out of the driving seat and having a rest in the back for a while... I mean, fuck, I had the Ralkin plot in mind when I introduced Tamina, what? 2 years ago?

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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Alberich » March 22nd, 2013, 9:05 am

Jargalan and Angrist don't need to be in serious trouble for Tim to do the intervention he has in mind - he just needs an opportunity when Eli's concentrating on something else.

Mind you, Tim hasn't yet muckled on to the fact that Jargalan is, in fact, an elf; if Eli tells him that then he's not doing any interventions 'til he sees the elf is going to be occupied. "Occupied with being dead" counts! So, yeah, maybe they do need to be in some trouble.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Browncoat » March 22nd, 2013, 4:24 pm

Just got caught up a bit (busy today). I'm kind of torn with Angrist. On the one hand, I do want to let him give Jargalan the beating he deserves. But in terms of staying in-character, Angrist wants to pit himself against the giant monster. I'm going to have him attack and if you really want him to go after Eli, have one of the others tell him to do so. That way I won't have to break character.
But I do have some questions about the magic shields and the physics behind them. Especially since I foresee that Angrist and Jargalan are probably going to fight relatively soon.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Alberich » March 22nd, 2013, 6:01 pm

It's good to be busy.

On barriers - the way I've been using them -- and I think this fits the way Eli and other PC's have used them -- is that they're very strong, bulletproof at the very least, and in fact take a very strong magic attack to punch through them unless the mage is tired out. (This happened to Udo at the kobold village - because Gabriel was channeling the power of Aleron, Aleron is way above Udo's level, and Udo was exhausted by his recent ordeal.) This makes for good storytelling because it allows for more dialogue and decisionmaking in the middle of a fight, as opposed to - "Boom! You're dead."

Since Jargalan is not only powerful, but elf-powerful, and doesn't trust any of the PC's (especially after the way they were subsersively whispering about him at the beach), the trick for Angrist -- if he wants to give Jargalan a feeling for his fists -- is to catch him without his shields. For example, while he's in the middle of a blast. Or is exhausted from enemy attacks. Or hits an enemy "dispel" trap that knocks his shield down.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Browncoat » March 22nd, 2013, 6:48 pm

Well I figured that. But I was curious about how well the shields would hold up against a physical barrage. Eg. could Jargalan's shielding withstand a tree falling on him? an avalanche? I mean we could theoretically measure the physical power of a spell used for offensive purposes based on the damage it could cause to various inanimate objects. So it stands to reason (in my mind) that enough physical force would be able to match a powerful spell and therefore be able to break a shield.
But I was also wondering about what I like to call the "bubble shield occurrence". The idea would be that the shield protects the mage and is centered on the target, but can move. Imagine drunk wizard bullies bouncing a shielded victim like a giant magical ping pong ball. Does this sound good, or would any energy toward moving the shield count as energy toward breaking the shield?
But I'm trying to figure out how Angrist would handle a shielded opponent. He can use magic to boost his speed and strength, but his attacks are still just physical means in the end. Bullets are generally singular attacks so I would think that the shields would recover relatively quickly, but what about dealing with a cannon (more mass) or a gatling gun (barrage of bullets)? I'm just tossing some ideas here to think about how magical shielding could be overcome by non-magical means.
And now I'm questioning how much of a magic drain shields would be. Eg. if Jargalan was holding his shield up to prevent physical attack, how long would he be able to hold it?
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Alberich » March 22nd, 2013, 7:36 pm

I mean we could theoretically measure the physical power of a spell used for offensive purposes based on the damage it could cause to various inanimate objects. So it stands to reason (in my mind) that enough physical force would be able to match a powerful spell and therefore be able to break a shield.

But I like Tamina and Alleece too! Please...for their sakes!

To answer you, we have had one magically-shielded mage under an avalanche. That was Eli, in Goriel. It swept him along and out of danger, and he had to dig himself out of it later on. So -- they can take a hell of a lot of nonmagical punishment. And since the shield was carried along with him, I think that means the shield and the wizard can be moved together.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Graybeard » March 22nd, 2013, 8:42 pm

Browncoat wrote:Well I figured that. But I was curious about how well the shields would hold up against a physical barrage. Eg. could Jargalan's shielding withstand a tree falling on him? an avalanche? [...]
And now I'm questioning how much of a magic drain shields would be. Eg. if Jargalan was holding his shield up to prevent physical attack, how long would he be able to hold it?

This is one of the things about a free-form, within the framework of a world where "rules" regarding magic have not been fully developed: we don't know, but are free to choose such answers as make the game work.

Opinions may differ on what that choice might be, but here's mine: Between precedent in Errant Road and what we saw of Shields/Barriers in Errant Story, Barrier should be easy to cast, but difficult to maintain for longer than a split second (i.e., long enough to stop whatever threat caused the spell to be cast), unless several people cooperate in the casting. I would think it would be robust against any kind of direct attack -- destructive magic, kinetic-energy weapon, penetrating device -- that the caster has seen before, but it could be "leaky" against something new. For example, a mage who has experience with Fireballs but has never seen firearms would be able to stop a Fireball dead in its tracks with a Barrier, but a bullet... maybe not.

Some Errant Moments to support this perspective:
  • "Reactive shield effects" didn't help this red-shirted elf when Jon decided to put a bullet in him, which fits the above model; elves don't mess around with bullets, after all.
  • Jeramel's personal bodyguard had enough collective spellpower to put up a Barrier that would last a while, but when they no longer had the Luminosita storage battery to draw on, it became harder (and probably got one of them killed).
  • A team of elves could put up Shields sufficient to fend off even Ianilis for some seconds, but couldn't do much else; they had to leave the offensive magic to those being protected with the Shields.
  • In Errant Road, Rose was able to teach an instantaneous, enhanced Barrier spell even to fairly non-magical Lillith, but even she herself got tired trying to maintain one for more than a few seconds, despite being a rather formidable mage.
Does this help establish some operating principles? Again: let's come up with answers that are fun and in character.
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Re: Errant Road- discussion thread

Postby Alberich » March 22nd, 2013, 9:02 pm

Between precedent in Errant Road and what we saw of Shields/Barriers in Errant Story, Barrier should be easy to cast,

Agree.

but difficult to maintain for longer than a split second

Don't agree.

"Reactive shield effects" didn't help this red-shirted elf when Jon decided to put a bullet in him, which fits the above model; elves don't mess around with bullets, after all.

....or simply that the elf in the armor had no shield up at all. If you look carefully at this panel you'll see that the reactive shield wasn't guarding the armored guy that Jon shot, but the robed peregin who left before Jon fired that shot. Thus, there is no need to say shields require some kind of familiarity with the thing being blocked. Maybe Eli never used his shield in a snowball fight, but he kept the avalanche off him right enough.

Oh, and by the way, did the peregin have that reactive shield up only for the split-second when Sara appeared, or did he have it up all the time, to protect him from unexpected attacks? I think the latter is the obvious answer. The reactive shield is easy to maintain for extended periods.

A team of elves could put up Shields sufficient to fend off even Ianilis for some seconds, but couldn't do much else; they had to leave the offensive magic to those being protected with the Shields.

Which we already explained in the other thread (which you agreed with at the time) - that shields are easy to keep up, but that most mages (Ianilis being a godlike exception) can't shield and blast at the same time.

In Errant Road, Rose was able to teach an instantaneous, enhanced Barrier spell even to fairly non-magical Lillith, but even she herself got tired trying to maintain one for more than a few seconds, despite being a rather formidable mage.

Whereas, in Errant Road, Udo, Eli, and Jargalan have all kept their shields up for extended periods without getting tired after a few seconds. Actually, Khoo's barriers have lasted longer than that, too.

Again: let's come up with answers that are fun and in character.

I agree; that's why they should be easy to maintain. If Angrist could beat the living crap out of Jargalan, unaided, anytime he wanted (as he probably could if Jargalan had to walk around unshielded all the time), that would make Jargalan less interesting as a foil. As it is, it may be doable, but it's more of a challenge, tactically and morally.
Last edited by Alberich on March 22nd, 2013, 9:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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