2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Follow the adventures of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Fran and Naga in this all-new humorous entry to the growing Poeverse.
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Nosy Neighbordroid
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2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by Nosy Neighbordroid »

Discussion thread for Insert 'Cold War' joke here
hkmaly
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by hkmaly »

Weaseltown being their largest trade partner doesn't mean they're irreplaceable. And judging by what was shown, I think the trade agreements were MUCH more advantageous to them that to Arendelle.

And that 13th brother? He's probably not the favourite son, he will not be so trusted. And others will certainly emphasize how peaceful the queen is. Hey, she didn't killed anyone, did she? And who would like to start war against peaceful nation with powerful witch queen who is young, beautiful and single and .... I predict that in Frozen II, princess with much more experience in picking girls will be trying to get her. Half of them with list of countries they invade after wedding already prepared (with very good explanation how it's just defense). Their gifts would certainly help the economy.

Also, the ski center of Arendelle would be famous summer touristic location.

(Seeing Frozen only recently as well.)
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by lyze »

Yeah, there's lots of big ole plot holes running through Frozen. As far as her not having killed anyone, I don't know, kind of depends on how prepared the kingdom is for unexpected super blizzards. Did the crops fail? The wildlife? The inevitable folks who don't listen to disaster warnings and decide to wait it out where ever they got caught out in the open when all this went down? That happens a lot in real life, people trapped in cars and such during unexpected snow storms without their winter gear.

As far as being invaded, I doubt any invasion would succeed against her if Elsa actually decided to use her powers against them in earnest. Can't sail a fleet in, can't march an army in overland. Assassins I guess. And she can make an army of snow golems that are basically immune to any kind of conventional weapon so she doesn't even need to be everywhere to defend.

Damn...that's what I want to see, Frozen II: The Cold War.
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

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I still haven't seen it. I really ought to so that I can discuss it with my niece and nephew.
hkmaly
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

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lyze wrote:Yeah, there's lots of big ole plot holes running through Frozen. As far as her not having killed anyone, I don't know, kind of depends on how prepared the kingdom is for unexpected super blizzards. Did the crops fail? The wildlife? The inevitable folks who don't listen to disaster warnings and decide to wait it out where ever they got caught out in the open when all this went down? That happens a lot in real life, people trapped in cars and such during unexpected snow storms without their winter gear.
The authors obviously didn't wanted to deal with it, but it seems it all only lasted for day or two. Effect on crop was certainly bad, but we didn't saw any fields - it's possible Arendelle have little to no agriculture to start with and depends on import. And animals and people probably survived.
lyze wrote:As far as being invaded, I doubt any invasion would succeed against her if Elsa actually decided to use her powers against them in earnest. Can't sail a fleet in, can't march an army in overland.
Classical invasion definitely impossible, but what about naval blockade? Could Arendelle survive without imports? Elsa herself acted like being able to survive without food just on her magic, but others wouldn't have that advantage.
lyze wrote: Assassins I guess. And she can make an army of snow golems that are basically immune to any kind of conventional weapon so she doesn't even need to be everywhere to defend.
Assassins certainly, unless she locks the door again, which she didn't wanted to. She will be perfectly safe in her tower on North Mountain, but down in Arendelle ...
lyze wrote:Damn...that's what I want to see, Frozen II: The Cold War.
While it sounds good, I would reserve my opinion for AFTER I see it. Lot of ways how to ruin it.
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by Forrest »

Frozen is full of all kinds of plot holes aside from even the main events of the story.

The king and queen of Arendelle die, and then for years the surviving princesses are shut up inside of the royal castle until the eldest of them takes the throne and gets the plot moving. Who exactly was running the country in the mean time? And why weren't they left in charge after both remaining royals fled, instead of a random minor prince from a different kingdom who they just met?

And as HISHE already pointed out, when the trolls very explicitly spell out "fear bad, love good" in the very beginning, why the flying fuck do they lock her away and teach her to fear herself and generally do all of the bad things they were just told not to do?

I think a much better story would have shown their parents explicitly trying to counter Elsa's fear of herself, then have Elsa somehow be accidentally responsible for her parents' deaths, and have her run off into the wilderness back then, in fear of herself, that fear spiraling out of control into an actual eternal winter -- and then for years everyone has known about the Snow Queen somewhere out there in the mountains causing it all. Meanwhile, a character the equivalent of the Duke of Weselton has been acting as regent of Arendelle until Anna comes of age, intentionally keeping her locked away not because of fear of Elsa, but as part of plan to usurp the kingdom by marrying his son -- Hans -- off to Anna, and then getting rid of her, leaving Hans the new permanent King of Arendelle. Have it a law that an unmarried queen cannot take the throne, so Anna must find a husband to become queen, which she is very excited about having never met a man in her life as in canon. So Anna's coronation is also her wedding to Hans, who she fell madly in love with and rapidly wed, all portrayed in classical Disney fashion as a wonderful romantic thing. Then the actual plot begins.

To get rid of Anna that, the Duke's forces are sent in secret on a (not known to them) suicide mission to attack Elsa, prompting a drastic increase in the bad wintery weather, requiring Anna go find Elsa to stop her lest the whole kingdom be destroyed, which the Duke intends to end in Anna's death when the armed escort sent along with her "get separated from her", leaving her to die in the wilderness. Back at Arendelle, the Duke and Hans think their plan has succeeded. But meanwhile Anna, with help from Kristoff, actually manages to not only survive in the wilds but to find Elsa, and when Elsa accidentally hurts Anna as in canon, she finally returns to Arendelle to help save her, only to discover (along with the audience) the treachery of the Duke and Hans, and defeat them in the finale, after which Anna defers the throne to Elsa, who finally takes her place as the rightful queen of Arendelle -- without a husband, because she's queen and she makes the laws now and does anybody really want to challenge Ms. Eternal Winter on that point?
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by Michael Poe »

I grew up during the ridiculous nuclear arms race bullshit, so I just tend to assume one country getting a hold of a new form of WMD, equals every other country losing their collective shit. Especially if the WMD could effectively destroy a population and their food supplies while leaving the buildings, resources and fields mostly intact with almost no drawbacks or fallout. And that's before you factor in what ever their various religious beliefs might have to say about magical witch queens. So to me, the situation just seems like best case, they have dozens of assassination attempts every week until one succeeds; worst case, massive all out holy war that only ends when Elsa either surrenders herself to end the chaos, or she goes death, destroyer of worlds on a few places.


And yeah, while HISHE already pointed out how fucking stupid the parents treatment of Elsa was, the fact that they seemed to just ignore Anna outright instead of specifically grooming her to serve in her sister's place as the monarchy's public face, if not as the actual queen was also odd. Also evil sideburns prince dude just going full mustache twirling evil villain in the second half of the movie, even though his subtle power grab was still working out really, really well for him.
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by Anthony »

As responses to 'foreign diplomats conspire to commit regicide' go, a trade embargo is pretty darn mild.
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by lyze »

Michael Poe wrote:. Also evil sideburns prince dude just going full mustache twirling evil villain in the second half of the movie, even though his subtle power grab was still working out really, really well for him.
I have to admit I completely didn't see that coming. Yeah, he could have pulled a win if he would have just stayed the course. Hell, even if Elsa got her shit straight, being married to the second in procession is a huge leap forward. Greedy. Stupid, murderous, greedy.
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Re: 2014-07-17: Insert 'Cold War' joke here

Post by Baeraad »

I haven't seen Frozen yet, if only because all the versions I can buy or rent seem to be exclusively the Swedish dub, and Swedish dubs, uhm... kind of suck.

Therefore I may be speaking in ignorance of the movie, but from what I can recall of political history, you don't freak out and invade a country for having gotten a superior military asset. You freak out and invade a country for being on the verge of getting a superior military asset, to keep them from getting it. Invading once they can already inflict unacceptable losses on you is pretty fucking stupid, y'know? That's why you invade before that, because you know it's your last chance to keep from becoming their bitch.

Now, trying to assassinate the scary witch-queen is something I can see, if someone think they can get away with it (though assassinating heads of state isn't as easy as all that, even when they don't have superpowers - so you have to weight the potential gain of getting rid of her against the very real possibility that you'll just piss her off). But on the other hand, I can see a ton of opportunistic monarchs deciding that sucking up to the scary witch-queen might be just the thing to avoid getting ice aged and/or making sure that their rivals get ice aged instead.

I'm thinking Arendelle will be just fine, really. But the political situation in the region is certainly going to get a lot more interesting.
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