2013-09-02: [CT] City Burning Contest

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Re: 2013-09-02: [CT] City Burning Contest

Postby eee » September 5th, 2013, 8:53 am

zz1000zz wrote:eee, are you aware you just created a straw man, or are you so indifferent to other people's views that you didn't even pay attention? Jon tried to get Ian to run away well after Ian had attacked the elves. Ian completely ignored him. Ian's initial attack was appropriate, but that's not what I was talking about. Ian could have easily launched that attack then tried to escape.

Try exercising some charity when you talk to people rather than assuming that just because they disagree with you, they're irrational morons deserving of mockery.

While you're at it, you might want to go back and address the stupid things you said. I responded to a number of points; you just ignored me. That says a lot.


"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position."

You asked "Why is there talk of people's POVs?". Ian has been raised on tales of Elven GENOCIDE!. He is filled with hate and fear. It would be like a 1940 German Jews facing Nazis; or perhaps more accurately, a human facing a group of Terminators. Everything Ian knows tells him that less than a total response will be fatal. That was implied in my answer. Jon, without that burden of terror and rage, doesn't see things that way. So there's talk of POV because it matters. (Had Ian met Sarine first, his view might have changed. Instead he met Captain Moron and his Zoo Crew. His view is now set in Adamantium.)

You asked, "was it better to fight or try to escape?". I pointed out trying to escape was not an option, it was a kill or be killed situation. Since Ian, Meji, and Jon were all dead unless all the Elves were put down or disabled, unleashing dangerous amounts of magical destruction, while it wasn't good for Saus and might have killed innocent bystanders in the surrounding buildings, was Ian's only option. Even when all the other Elves were dead, the Captain by himself was such a danger (as we saw / will see) that turning and running when Jon wanted to would have almost assuredly been fatal. There was not much chance he would have stopped to heal his wounded men or put out the fires; his orders were to kill or capture the Errants, and that was what he was going to do.

You stated "even if you don't believe Ian's decision was idiotic, he was still psycho" and cited as evidence that he didn't speak or show regard for his companion's safety. Only in comic books do people engaged in a battle for their life make speeches. Ian was facing four mortal enemies, any one of who could kill him (and Meji, and Jon) and one of whom was at least his magical equal, if not superior. He didn't have the time for or the luxury of restraint, he had to fire off the most powerful spells he was capable of using and hope they'd do enough damage to the Elves that he'd live long enough to cast the next spell.

Now, which points of yours did I not address - directly or indirectly - in my previous post?

Also, I am a very charitable person. It is not charitable to allow people to say things that demonstrate a lack of consideration of the facts.

And...

"Try exercising some charity when you talk to people rather than assuming that just because they disagree with you, they're irrational morons deserving of mockery.

While you're at it, you might want to go back and address the stupid things you said."

You might want to consider those two sentences in relation to each other. And moderate your speech patterns in the future.

;)
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Re: 2013-09-02: [CT] City Burning Contest

Postby erejnion » September 5th, 2013, 9:56 am

eee wrote:Ian has been raised on tales of Elven GENOCIDE!!. He is filled with hate and fear.

Yeah, and that means Ian was raised to be a psycho of a type Jon doesn't want to be around. That doesn't change anything in the argument.

eee wrote:I pointed out trying to escape was not an option, it was a kill or be killed situation.

He pointed out that Jon's assessment of a cultured being told him that there's no "kill or be killed" situations in a civilized world, and that running away would be a better option. Blame Jon for growing up in a relatively cultured world.

eee wrote:[...] and might have killed innocent bystanders in the surrounding buildings [...]

Even if this was Ian's only option, a cultured being has his right to despise him for not even putting half a though into seeking an alternative outcome.

eee wrote:He didn't have the time for or the luxury of restraint, he had to fire off the most powerful spells he was capable of using and hope they'd do enough damage to the Elves that he'd live long enough to cast the next spell.

May I note something?

His spells don't have a vocal component, and people are generally able to multitask. One simple "RUN AWAY NOW" would have helped Ian's case as not being a war-crazed psycho.

Jon said it even during the combat, just before running away. Fucking psycho (half)elven mages with no regard of the city. On the other hand in the same scene Sarine is doing what a civilized being should be: healing the injured. I've always thought that it made for a nice juxtaposition.

P.S. this reminds me of the unlikability of Ian discussion from some time ago. We saw other half elves besides him who grew up in the same place. None of them seemed as war-crazy as him. Poor guy. At least he did for an awesome villain, even if it's a lost cause to defend his ways.
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