2008-04-21 - Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Boss Out of Town » April 22nd, 2008, 3:14 pm

mindstalk wrote:As for what he could be doing right now... it's like Emerylon again. What's his goal? "rescuing" Jon? He could demand Jon be brought to him and at least try talking; instead he's choosing to walk through a unknown and hostile city, the integrity of which he just damaged, so far killing whoever he meets along the way.

Except, of course, Ian doesn't know he's invincible, doesn't know the Elves cannot hurt him, and has every reason to believe the Elves would never stoop to negotiating with a half-elf or any other creature they consider dangerous vermin fit only for extermination. And exactly why should Jon care about the structural integretry of this city full of violent, genocidal, super-powered immortals? Any chance he's ever heard of an Elf who wouldn't burn entier city blocks, say, in downtown Saus, just for the sake of killing a single half-elf? Or an elf who wouldn't gloat over the half-elf he's about to kill in the midst of the ruins full of dead and dying humans?

Like I said, if you want to speculate, it is only constructive if you do so on the basis of what Jon knows, not on your knowledge.
Last edited by Boss Out of Town on April 22nd, 2008, 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby davester65 » April 22nd, 2008, 4:06 pm

Boss Out of Town wrote:
mindstalk wrote:As for what he could be doing right now... it's like Emerylon again. What's his goal? "rescuing" Jon? He could demand Jon be brought to him and at least try talking; instead he's choosing to walk through a unknown and hostile city, the integrity of which he just damaged, so far killing whoever he meets along the way.

Except, of course, Jon doesn't know he's invincible, doesn't know the Elves cannot hurt him, and has every reason to believe the Elves would never stoop to negotiating with a half-elf or any other creature they consider dangerous vermin fit only for extermination. And exactly why should Jon care about the structural integretry of this city full of violent, genocidal, super-powered immortals? Any chance he's ever heard of an Elf who wouldn't burn entier city blocks, say, in downtown Saus, just for the sake of killing a single half-elf? Or an elf who wouldn't gloat over the half-elf he's about to kill in the midst of the ruins full of dead and dying humans?

Like I said, if you want to speculate, it is only constructive if you do so on the basis of what Jon knows, not on your knowledge.


Would I be wrong to assume you meant Ian, not Jon? Jon does know a couple of Elves who aren't like that (Sarine and Misa).
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Maiazuru » April 22nd, 2008, 5:21 pm

Any chance he's ever heard of an Elf who wouldn't burn entier city blocks, say, in downtown Saus, just for the sake of killing a single half-elf? Or an elf who wouldn't gloat over the half-elf he's about to kill in the midst of the ruins full of dead and dying humans?

Like I said, if you want to speculate, it is only constructive if you do so on the basis of what Jon knows, not on your knowledge.


I'm going on this based on the fact you're thinking about Ian.

The fact of the matter is: What Ian knows, or doesn't know, doesn't excuse the fact that he's enjoying killing. That they're elves don't matter none. Its still wrong.

And then there's this argument about Ian being in 'war' mode. Sorry, but that's bull. Soldiers in war don't actually ENJOY shooting others - not the sane ones. He's on 'manslaughter' mode. But I'll withhold judgement until he actually meets up with some civilians. If he leaves them alone, then I admit he's just a bit too bloodthirsty for his own good. If he kills them, he's unredeemable.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby mindstalk » April 22nd, 2008, 7:10 pm

One question is whether the Santuariel version of history has any memory of the fact that some elves defended the half-elves, at least until desperate half-elf terrorism turned even their allies away. They might gloss over that; then again, there's the fact of elven ruins to explain.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Neko7 » April 22nd, 2008, 9:35 pm

davester65 wrote: So maybe the errant that Sarine killed way back in the beginning of the story used to live in Santauriel, but left when he ran out of neighborhood pets to mutilate, because he didn't want to hurt anyone he had feelings for. Who knows, maybe he was Ian's father.


This errant...
Well if you look at this strip:
http://www.errantstory.com/comic.php?date=2002-11-20

He lived over there for 65 years and that he is older than the talking old man (who didn't said he -the errant- was born here).

So my point is: if he had people that he liked, familly or friend (none half-elf) they are most likely very old or already dead.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby mindstalk » April 22nd, 2008, 10:38 pm

I always wondered how secure Sarine's link between Derren and the murders was. Did she have anything more than "touched in the head" half-elf to go on?
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Boss Out of Town » April 22nd, 2008, 10:40 pm

Maiazuru wrote:And then there's this argument about Ian being in 'war' mode. Sorry, but that's bull. Soldiers in war don't actually ENJOY shooting others - not the sane ones.

You've led a sheltered life. That idealistic notion was a standardized response among military men in Western liberal 20th Century culture, where enjoying war was considered uncivilized. Large segments of our population, including a lot of career military, still feel the same way, although their beliefs are no longer dominant in our society.

In any event, distaste or disapproval of killing human beings certainly isn't anything hard-wired into human biology. That's just something we say to comfort ourselves and feel superior to more violent societies. It also strengthens our culture's moral infrastructure by giving it the authority of science.

All primates are capable of killing those outside their tribe. Humans just happen to be bright enough to give the matter some thought before they kill.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Slamlander » April 22nd, 2008, 10:45 pm

Maiazuru wrote:And then there's this argument about Ian being in 'war' mode. Sorry, but that's bull. Soldiers in war don't actually ENJOY shooting others - not the sane ones.


I recommend that you look up the Mei Lai Massacre. Yes, some did exactly that. Some of them are now your neighbors but that plays into Kerry's "Winter Soldier" thing, which is vile and false. The sane ones actually recover from the trauma. Some compartmentalization is healthy and good.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Viking-Sensei » April 22nd, 2008, 11:37 pm

Kian wrote:"They started it" isn't a valid excuse when discussing GENOCIDE!.


Ahem... GENOCIDE!!

DarkIntruder wrote:Dammit, don't you say that! If Meji dies, I'll go ballistic. I've invested too much hope that she'll actually grow up and become a meaningful contributor to the world to have her up and get killed for no reason.


Aw, come on, it's not like Poe's ever killed of a beloved female main character at a crucial point of a story arc... right? I'm sure Bush Meji will be just fine.



As to Ian's handling of the situation, I have a theory... he's all dragon and no turtle, and it's being made worse by the fact that he realizes this (especially after his encounter with the time monks). Looking back, Ian's powers thusfar have been almost entirely on the offensive - the only time he's "blocked" anything so far was when he was storming the church, and it wasn't really a "block" (thus the quotes) so much as a fundemental rewriting of the laws of magic to cause their fireballs turn back on them. This makes me seriously question if he even knows how to do anything defensive, like shield or barrier spells, other than the reactive ones that he appears to be able to generate when he realizes he's under attack.

My feeling has always been that an opponent who cannot block is one of the most dangerous opponents, because he or she knows that they've got to do as much sheer damage to you as fast as possible before you get a hit in. Therefore, Ian is far more likely to turn any elf who looks at him funny into an elf smoothie rather than letting them go in for a one-hit takeout that he doesn't see coming until it's too late.

Also, it occurs to me (unless I'm wrong) that we've not really seen Ian perform "simple" magic since becoming God-Powered. When he healed, it was the Omega-Heal. When he dispelled, it was Teh Disspell Bomb. When he meditated, he turned his shoe into a plant. It may be that he was trying something simple and non-destructive like Bind on the first elf... the one who turned into an elf ball... because I'd definately say he's bound, alright. At his current level, sleep may become Sleeping Beauty Coma, stun may be Oops I Made Your Head Explode, and mute may become Alright, Buddy, You No Longer Have A Head, And Therefore Cannot Talk Anymore.

Now, I'm not saying that he isn't enjoying things... a little too much at this point... and I'm not saying that he isn't out for blood NOW, just that it may not have been his original intent.
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Re: Yeah, I'm okay wit dat ...

Postby Sareth » April 22nd, 2008, 11:58 pm

I still think that Ian's father was not, in fact, killed by the elves but instead is simply not important enough to the plot to mention. The reason is simply this: Ian hasn't mentioned elves killing him. Considering that Ian is The All Original Emo Kid, and prone to trotting out every woe and sadness he and the errants have ever suffered at the hands of the elves, the fact his father dying at the hands of one seems like a tell tale that such never occured. But that is simply conjecture on my part.

And yes, sadly, there are plenty of soldiers who do, in fact, enjoy killing the enemy. The good ones are the ones who realize later that the taking of human life might be necessary, but it should not be reveled in.
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