Shading in the Early ES Pages

[KZK]

I found a copy of Errant Story Volume 1 in a used bookstore recently (signed and sketched). As I was looking through it, it seemed like the artwork was being converted in the Keenspot volume to pure black and white with no shading. But I took my suspicions to the actual Errant story archive, and the artwork was actually the same, as it seems that most of the early Errant Story artwork, save the prologue, is indeed without any shading at all.

So I was wondering if Michael Poe was going to go back to early pages and add some of the dynamic shading that we get with all the new pages. Seems like he could fix up a couple of pages per week.

Also, it was disappointing that The Printed version of Errant Story Volume 1, skiped the pregnant silhouette of sarine, which I remember from the ES Archive.

[Imp-Chan]

Poe is gradually doing a lot more than just shading the early pages, we've actually gone back through the first 20 chapters or so (so far) and edited them for greater clarity. We're not cutting anything out or changing the actual order of events or changing the events themselves, but we are showing those events in a slightly different order so that the story reads a lot stronger. We've also fixed some pacing problems and some of the walls of text, mostly by removing redundancies, sneaking in extra panels here and there, and shuffling some of the art across the pages for better effect. Fans will still definitely recognize the story, and might not really notice/care about the changes, but new readers will find it easier to get sucked in and follow along. Or at least, that's the plan. Once we're done, we had planned to send the new version out to solicit publishers.

However, optimizing some 400 pages of artwork and text takes time, and we've so far only fully completed about twenty pages because life keeps getting in the way (we really need an assistant who can work as a colorist and visual editor). We don't want to publish the changes until we've finished making all of them including any edits to more recent chapters, though, and that leaves a question of what to do in the meantime. The revised books won't break in the same places, so the shiny new stuff basically requires starting over on publishing from the very beginning. Meanwhile, we're constantly being asked about Volume Three. The question is do we go ahead and start over now, or do we completely self-publish the series in original format, and only then look around for someone to publish the edited books for us where they can reach a wider market (despite the fact that it's rare for publishers to be interested in re-publishing anything)?

^-^'

[KZK]

AS for the web version, you can still have both versions hosted on the site, one that branches to all the original pages (ES Classic) and one that branches to the improved version (New ES). For all practical purposes if a pages only changes were cleaned up art / fixed typos, then that page can be updated in both branches.

As for the Keenspot Volumes, Since they are OOP and relatively small, I consider them to collectors items at this point.

I would definitely start over, with the print publishing. I have larger flipped versions of many CLAMP titles, and have read library copies of small flipped versions of popular manga titles that been released unflipped in much improved second editions.

I understand that Kodansha is looking to enter the U.S. market. Viz (cursed be thy name) is looking for fresh talent to exploit, but I would be wary of the fine print (they also censor things). I think Del Rey is doing a limited number of Original English titles. Tokyopop is to be avoided. Always get a good lawyer to read the fine print.

[Imp-Chan]

We'd be happy to submit to publishers once the first volume is fully revised, but there's no point until we have something ready to go to print. Regardless, we will definitely not be posting the corrected pages online until the entire editing project is complete, and at that point whether the altered pages were posted would be a matter to work out with a publisher. Internet rights are a common piece of boilerplate at this point, and I'd like to leave some room to negotiate regarding distribution. If we've already posted the pages, that wiggle room disappears. Also last I checked Del Rey was not accepting unsolicited submissions, so we'd still need an agent if we were to try that route.

My inclination is actually to finish doing small press printings of the series unaltered except to correct typos. If Volumes One and Two are already effectively collector's items (though I'm not certain that's the common perception), then volumes Three through Nine would be, as well. Provided there's a significant difference between our edition and later editions offered to publishers (there is), I don't think there's too much of a conflict, or at least no more of one than already exists. More importantly, self-publishing those volumes would make a lot of readers happy. If we just started over, they would not only have to wait for volume three until volumes one and two are republished, they would have to repurchase those volumes in order to match up with volume three! It may not be as personally satisfying to print the unaltered volumes, but the resulting happy readers would more than make up for it.

^-^'

[KZK]

The thing to remember about sales of things like books, Tv series, etc., particularly long serials, is that the falloff of sales is not linear. Typically the second volume of a series sells about half of what the first volume sells. After several more volumes it usually halves again. This is why most Tv series now are being published as season sets, because singles sales would fall off a cliff.

The keenspot volumes are thin, compounding the problem. Most paperbacks/manga style volumes sold by most publishers in the U.S. have about 200 pages. That's about the size most people expect when they purchase something from a bookstore. If it were my decision I would combine the first two volumes for any 2nd Edition volumes. I have no problem personally buying a revised edition of any comic/manga (I'm a collector), also sales help keep ES going, which is a big plus. I bet many of the fans who bought previous volumes would agree, that it is a good thing for ES to keep going.

I have read good things about Dark Horse. I also know what Dark Horse did to Narutaru. It might be more beneficial to work on the Japanese market first, as Japanese copyright law prevents companies from outright stealing your property as can happen in America. Also sales of manga in Japan dwarf those of sales in the U.S., so getting in with one of the big publishers (Shueisha, Kodansha, etc.) might be a worthwhile endeavor.

Even if you do go back to the self publishing rout, you should look to get your merchandise into the Right Stuf International (TRSI) and similar websites.

You can find several interesting threads on various message boards discussing the subject.

[Imp-Chan]

You know, as much as I appreciate getting suggestions about what fans want from us, this is starting to sound more like a lecture about what we should be doing with the company, one that assumes we haven't bothered to consider the options and decide whether they'd be beneficial. I confess that I'm beginning to feel a bit insulted by that.

As it happens, publication (self and otherwise) is a topic I've expended considerable time and effort researching over the last few years, so I'm fairly confident in my assessment of the best direction for us to go with it. The fact is, even if we were ready to submit to publishers today (we aren't), and even if they accepted the book tomorrow (they wouldn't, it takes much longer than that), it would still be a minimum of 10 months before the first book hit the shelves. More than likely, it would be at least a year and a half between starting to submit and getting a book on the shelves, to say nothing of the time between volumes.

Not to sound crass, but in order for that to be a good financial choice for us, it needs to stand to make us more money in the same amount of time as self-publishing more promptly can. That is highly unlikely to happen, not least because the soonest we'd see a dime from a publisher is probably about two years from when we started submitting to publishers (not counting the advance, which would likely not be comparable to a year and a half of self-published sales, since from a publisher's perspective Poe is an unknown author).

As for copyright law, we register all our copyrights on Poe's work, and we consult with an excellent attorney, so companies in the US would not benefit from attempts to steal it anymore than companies in Japan. I've also been briefed at some length about what would really be involved in getting published in Japan, and it is NOT any faster or more advantageous.

For your reference in regards to book length, the self-published Volume Two is 192 pages, which is both a standard length for manga in the US and a very convenient length to print without waste. All further self-published volumes are planned to be at least the same. As for combining Volumes One and Two, that is not an option, at least not directly, because the result would be about 320 pages long, which is too expensive to print and a silly way to break the story up, anyways. In the revised version we are scrambling the pages and rebreaking the chapters, though, so it will effectively accomplish an entire series of books that maintain that 192 page length, rather than having one shorter book. Not coincidentally, the revised chapters will all be 20-24 pages, which is an ideal length for publishing color comic book sized issues, should we ever decide to do so. I like to plan ahead when I edit.

At any rate, just because we plan to finish printing the unaltered series with self-publishing doesn't mean we're not still planning to pursue publishing the revised version with publishers and overseas, we're just doing so on a very extended timetable because that whole system works on a slower schedule. My question about publishing was never really a matter of not having decided, it's because having gotten into the editing I of course want to be publishing the shinier pages NOW, and I know that I can't do that.

^-^'

[KZK]

I would certainly hope you have the presence of mind not to take actions based on random commenters on random forum threads.

Yes, I do know about all the factors involved in getting something published. Research is your friend.

I didn't mean to imply that you should take any action, particularly in any near-term timeframe. I am content with the current web-only release as is.

I'll try not to lecture.

As for getting published by a major publisher, their are many long term benefits (and negatives) beyond just the short term economic ones, for which I will omit. The main benefit, is Distribution and Advertising, as major publishers can get product into many more places (B&N, Borders) than self publishing can. (I Think Diamond may go under in the future however).

As for the advantages of getting Licensed by a publisher in Japan, is that it is a large market that is untapped. Increasing your presence by moving into Large untapped markets is usually beneficial. It's really a numbers game, as manga and manga magazines sell (in aggregate) orders of magnitude more copies in Japan than in America. Their are also many disadvantages, like the low quality.

As for the size of ES volume 2, my mistake, I extrapolated the size based on the previous volumes of EN & ES, because I have not acquired a copy yet. Still, having the first volume be smaller than subsequent volumes seems problematic. In spite of the fact that 192 is a nice multiple of 32 (and 24), in practice a lot of commercially published volumes are a few pages longer than that because they add endnotes, advertising and other pages.

I'll shut up now.