Anime that Doesn't Suck

[Boss Out of Town]

Scrapped Princess, another Anime That Doesn't Suck, wasn't great fiction but had several good points, including . . .
1) A plot with some depth and majesty to it.
2) Good-looking scenary and characters.
3) Rollicking theme and credit music that makes you want to pull out your sword and have an adventure.
3) Some kick-ass characters who actually kick ass in a fight instead of posturing.
4) The next stage in mecha evolution: instead of a mechanical construction, the fighting machines are composed of organized energy, stored in a pocket dimension (ultra hammer space) until needed.

So, yeah, if the solid bits of your mecha are primarily a projected framework for handling the real power, you can take on the form of a dragon, a giant frog, a humanoid robot, a towering blob . . . your choice.

[Itterind]

Scrapped Princess was fantastic. I'm glad the Dragon lived. She was stylish the way through (and especially cute at the end as a farmer), and though I didn't like the the Peacekeeper who was trapped in little-girl form after her transformation much she was the cutest character ever before that.
Not sure about the 'Rossaeu was right' part though, well I agree with it but... I could see it coming and it really pissed me off when her brother stabbed her in the back. He could've done some more groveling of his regret at the end after they were ressurected.

[mindstalk]

Yeah, Scrapped Princess was my favorite, until I watched Twelve Kingdoms. Lots of funny moments, plus I liked early guessing it was SF faux fantasy, and having my guesses mostly turn out right.

[Boss Out of Town]

I'd watch another store set in the Scrapped Princess universe just to see those war machines in action again.

[zanntos]

So, Toradora. (it's this fall season so if you're going to watch it's fansubbed)
I'm enjoying it so far, particularly since they're subverting the typical Tsundere pairing since the "mains" are chasing after different people that happen to be friends of the other "main". Of course there is always the (rather high) chance that they'll end up with each other at the end. But from this fall season it seems to be one of the worthwhile series to watch. Ok, i'm a sucker for the highschool life romantic comedy crap, i wallow in non-shame.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yay arguments about giant robots. I suppose I might as well.

The main points are:
1) Given equal tonnage, a bi- or multi-pedal robot will have much less armor than a tank due to the surface areas involved. Furthermore, a tank's armor will be more effective as it will be sloped, whereas a mech's armor will not be due to the constraints of the form.
2) Also given equal tonnage, a mech is a far less stable firing platform than a tank. A mech will have its guns presumably around "shoulder" height, while its center of gravity will be closer to its middle, which will in turn be significantly off the ground. If we're talking some sort of spiderbot with a turret, the problem is lessened but still rather intense--the firing of the gun will put significant stress on the leg mechanisms. A tank, on the other hand, has its firing point far closer to its center of gravity which is far closer to the ground. There's also a lot more tank mass, relatively speaking, to counteract the firing of the gun due to the shape of a tank. What this means is that tanks will always have bigger guns than mechs.
3) Tanks are already maintenance nightmares. Mechs will have far more moving parts of greater complexity, and will be even harder to keep in fighting condition.
4) Large things are easier to see. A mech will be higher off the ground than a tank, and consequently will be blasterized.
5) The only terrain legs are more suited for than wheels is stairs. Everywhere else, it's a much less efficient mode of transit and would consequently have much greater energy requirements than a tank.
6) Tanks exert less pressure on the ground than a human does due to the fact that its weight is spread out over its treads. A mech, on the other hand, will have an equivalent tonnage over a space that would be proportional to a human's feet. This means that mechs will only be able to stand on quite hard ground, while tanks can operate on more varied surfaces. This has the secondary effect of making it very difficult for mechs to operate during rainy weather.
7) If mechs can fly or swim, tanks can do so too...in fact better, since a tank is a more aerodynamic and crush-proof shape than a mech would be. That's silly anyways; it would be far better to have a tank, a helicopter, and a submarine than a fantastically expensive tank (or mech) that could do all three. Each one would do its job better than a flying tank (or mech), and the loss of one machine has fewer repercussions.
8) Weapons of war only become propaganda tools because of their effectiveness. While a mech might look impressive at first, as soon as it's exposed as fantastically vulnerable to autocannon fire and RPGs, everyone will laugh at them. Hard.

Fear me, for I am the slayer of catgirls.


Anyway, as to the main topic, Haruhi is very good as some people have mentioned. Quite funny. I've also heard good things about Code Geass; someone's probably mentioned that by now in the thread but I don't remember.

[Boss Out of Town]

Have to agree with everything you said except this . . .

8) Weapons of war only become propaganda tools because of their effectiveness. While a mech might look impressive at first, as soon as it's exposed as fantastically vulnerable to autocannon fire and RPGs, everyone will laugh at them. Hard.

A completely hopeless piece of new equipment--hopeless in its own cultural context, that is---will probably not gain enough cultural footing to be used over more effective weaponry. However, history is replete with military systems and technology still in use years, decades, and centuries after more effective technology becomes available. The armored knight in the 16th-17th century, the katana in the 19th century, the lance in the early 20th century, etc. This is even more blatantly obvious with regard to tactics and strategies, but the principle is the same.

Anyway, as to the main topic, Haruhi is very good as some people have mentioned. Quite funny. I've also heard good things about Code Geass; someone's probably mentioned that by now in the thread but I don't remember.

Count me among the faction (a minority, I'm sure) disliking both intensely.

I have limits to my patience with obnoxious lead characters. Particularly that nasty, loud, cruel, selfish little b**** Haruhi. I got about five episodes into the show and realized I liked it better when she was off-screen. Not a good sign.

I gave up on Geass in about the same number of episodes, out of shear boredom. An entire cast of characters who are either posturing, decadent blowhards or their doormats? I'll take it up again if someone can tell me at what point something interesting happens.

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Well, Haruhi is quite the jerk. I found some of that to be the funny part. Intensely disliking the main character is a good reason not to watch the show though.

I've never seen Code Geass, so I can't really comment.

As for the giant robots subcurrent, all the things you mentioned were in use in that time period because of earlier effectiveness, while lance cavalry and katanas didn't really become obviously useless until rates of fire made hand-to-hand combat essentially extinct. Katanas also served to mark officers until WWII, so they're not a very good example. Knights, for their part, were able to get thicker armor to counteract the bullets until well into the 17th century. Perhaps they were around a little too long, but not without reason; once they did become silly, they were universally dropped.

In any case, mechs would never be effective enough to get that kind of prestige in the first place, so the point is moot.

[Boss Out of Town]

As for the giant robots subcurrent, all the things you mentioned were in use in that time period because of earlier effectiveness, while lance cavalry and katanas didn't really become obviously useless until rates of fire made hand-to-hand combat essentially extinct. Katanas also served to mark officers until WWII, so they're not a very good example. Knights, for their part, were able to get thicker armor to counteract the bullets until well into the 17th century. Perhaps they were around a little too long, but not without reason; once they did become silly, they were universally dropped.

In any case, mechs would never be effective enough to get that kind of prestige in the first place, so the point is moot.

Very true at our technology level and in our culture, which kicks the plausibility struts out from Full Metal Panic and a lot of other anime.

In another culture, with differing notions of how wars should be fought, some other course might be possible. Again, the katana is a good example. Japanese gun technology could have eliminated the cult of the samurai and their swords a couple of centuries earlier, but the samurai decided to fix the game and eliminate firearms. After the Americans cracked open Japan's shell in the 1850s, Meji and his people changed the rules to something less silly in a single generation.

There are also the extremes of technology and feasibility. If, as in Raxephon, weapons are so lethal that metal or composite armor is an afterthought to the energies being manipulated, why not a form that makes aesthetic sense to the mind of the pilot and designer?

The feasibility issue also applies to the technologies we do not understand. Airplanes aren't as compact as tanks because they need wings to fly and control surfaces for maneuver. Ships cannot be round (this was actually tried in the 19th century) because they need a shape that allows them to move freely on the surface of a liquid medium. If the Enterprise is supposed to fly better with its warp nacelles out on pylons, we cannot really contradict the designer (why it doesn't have a 3D layout, on the other hand . . .). If the efficiency of a war machine piloted by psychic powers is seriously improved by it being in the shape of the psychics body . . . well, maybe.

[mindstalk]

Full Metal Panic mecha aren't really using our technology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Technology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm_Slave
first generation was plausible and sucky, second started using advanced muscle fibers and stealth and is oddly fast, third has even better muscles, cold fusion reactors, and force fields given the right pilot. Plus AI. Funky technologies come from a handful of mutant people getting messages from the future. (A plot device used by Alastair Reynolds as well; the Conjoiners are smart, but their really advanced tech comes from cheat sheets.)